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former campaign manager for the 1988 presidential candidate, michael do cass kiss and a -- dukakis. it's always a pleasure to talk to you. >> always a pleasure to see you, art. >> thank you. let's start about on that pivotal meeting. what did it say to you, susan? >> well, look, the one thing we've all known since 1968 where the democrats had the worst convention in american history. they ended up having young people being shot at by the chicago police with tear gas outside the convention and fights on the floor and fights outside. and the one rule we thought we all learned was that you have to control your convention, that the country will look at you and say, if you can't control a convention of your own members, if you can't put together four nights of some entertainment, some speeches, some blarney, whatever it is, if you can't do that, how the heck are you going to be president? so i think what the republicans are trying to do is face the reality that they may have the convention that nominates donald trump and they've got to figure out how to do it. and the only thing worse i