before michael cohen testifies, it's corroborating michael cohen before it has to be solely on michael cohen shoulder. and that's why again, peckers doing a terrific job for the prosecution and messy. >> there's also this moment where they're talking about the story that the doorman was alleging, which apparently was false. but he had a story and pecker said he was just going to hold it. and then if it turned out to be true, he would run it after the election. why is that significant? >> this is one of the most significant point it's, it's all about tying this back. this, these actions back specifically to the election because the prosecution has to show the furtherance of another crime, presumably violation of election laws, campaign finance laws. they have to eliminate that defense of i would kill the story for any other reason just because i'm a high-profile they'll person when it's directly tied to the election planting of stories against political opponents is different than killing a story about your personal life. clearly that shows motivati

so with a michael cohen style witness, you don't run from the fact that michael cohen is michael cohenom the fact that he has a shady past. you don't run from the fact that this guy is not a saint. what you do is repackage that. you might tell the jury, you're going to hear from michael cohen, and you're going to hear that he hasn't always been honest. or you might hear something to kind of front that. you frame it as we didn't choose michael cohen. you know who chose michael cohen, the defendant, donald trump. michael cohen is exactly the kind of guy this you hire to do this kind of scheme, and you frame a weakness and try to fit it back into your broader narrative, that's what i would expect the prosecution to do here. >> there's a point here, i'd like to ask vaughn about that. in the access hollywood tape to the jury, he said he didn't know he was on -- and he's also mentioning hope hicks, so these are some of the characters that we will be -- and incidents that we'll be hearing, even though the video is not going to be shown, but the transcript is available. >> yeah, everybody plea

-- >> you have to ask michael cohen. michael cohen is my attorney. and you'll have to ask michael cohen. >> but no, you'll have to michael cohen. there was a million defrn different ways that politicians could avoid or dismiss things but he was still stuck to his blame michael cohen defense. ask him. it was all him. and he went rogue and quickly other lawyers had to come in and start changing the story. we don't know what out of court evidence they'll but using but they are going to take different parts of the timeline, the prosecutors, to show how the story shifted, which in essence is another way that you know was a cover-up. because he had the original thing and they covered it up and then in a sense they started covering up the cover-up. and then trump lawyer rudy giuliani basically went on live tv and changed the story and admitted or said trump did repay cohen. >> they funneled it through a law firm. funneled through a law firm and the president repaid it. >> oh, i didn't know, he didn't? there is no campaign finance law? >> zer

the other thing that's important is he's not michael cohen. michael cohen able to bring the jurors inside the discussions of the trump organization. he has his own credibility problems. he went to jail for lying. i think in this case to have somebody else corroborate that's not michael cohen builds up cohen's credibility and helps prosecutors point the finger at trump, not relying on this one witness. >> it's important, not a lot of people recognize or know just how prevalent these catch and kill thing is, just the whole example of catch and kill, which is not illegal, but it certainly has been prevalent in so many cases. >> sure, and i think it's of particular interest in the trump case because it was something that he was so involved in and that the tabloids did on his behalf so often, and i think it really contributed to this sense that he has that he could get away with pretty much anything because he had for so long this notion that he could stand in the middle of 5th avenue and shoot someone and still be fine. you know, that came from years of going a

michael cohen. from michael cohen, maybe it's not as salacious, but this is actually what the trial and the crime itself. >> it is michael cohen was contacting this bank because he they'd been having this discussion about ami and david pecker is the firewood owned the national enquirer? >> yes. they've been having the discussion on them making the payment to stormy daniels and essentially david pecker or didn't want anything to do it. he did not want to be in cahoots with a porn star making this payment to her. and it came to this point where michael cohen was trying to reach trump. he was under pressure to do this and finally said, i'm just going to do it myself and drew down a home equity line that's why this exchange happening right now pharaoh received another email two days later, please return michael cohen's call when you are available today regarding an important merit, a matter pharaoh calls cohen who told him he wanted to open a new llc account. >> cohen said the account was for capital real estate. pharaoh says, let me bring in some other attorneys we have with us today to discuss criminal de

>> they're going to call anybody who they think can corroborate michael cohen because michael cohen recentlyespected federal judge judge furman wrote in an order that he thinks michael cohen may have committed perjury recently. michael cohen, there was never a camera, never a tv show he didn't go on. now, i don't blame the media for that, he was a great find, but i have never seen either as a prosecutor or a defense lawyer, a cooperator go on tv time and time again before they testify just to demonstrate his bias against trump and his desire to make trump go down. i think they're going to devastate michael cohen on cross. >> so you don't think he'll be the next one up, jessica who do you think will be the next one? >> i think if it were me trying the case, i would try to really shore up what david pecker has said so far about the scheme that he was involved. so if hope hicks is available and can really corroborate what david pecker has said thus far and she'd be a strong witness, then i would go to her next. i would lockdown those facts that david pecker has given us and corroborate them and

or articles about michael cohen. michael cohen's new statement is, quote, the imposed fine is irrelevant. judge merchan's decision elucidates that this behavior will not be tolerated and no one is above the law. again, judge merchan finding donald trump violated nine of the ten alleged violations that were brought forward by the district attorney's office so far. and even suggested the potential jail time could be a potential consequence if donald trump were continue to violate the gag order placed on him. >> everyone watching at home, stay with us. everybody else, stay close, we'll keep an eye on that manhattan courthouse throughout this hour. we'll have more in just minutes, including another critical hearing set for thursday on more possible gag order violations after that judge's ruling today. >>> and when we're back in 60 seconds, the chaos at columbia. student protesters occupying a historic campus building, what they're demanding from their university leaders. >> these repulsive scare tactics mean nothing compared to the deat

but i want to ask you about michael cohen. michael cohen knows he has a credibility problem. f time with these prosecutors, right? they've had the conversations but he took a profane swipe at trump on x. wrote among other things you are attacks stink of desperation. we are all hoping you take the stand in your defense. if you're the prosecutor who's calling cohen to the stand, what are you thinking when you see that? >> i'm thinking michael cohen, please shut up. please just do your testifying in the courtroom, but the prosecutor does not control michael cohen. i'm not sure anyone controls michael cohen. so he's not doing the prosecution that he favors in a way that makes his testimony even more credible. although we know at the same time, that he now des dispiezs trump. with regard to the testimony of cohen, they want to hit it and quit it. >> paul and danny, i don't know what the rest of the trial holds when they reconvene on thursday, but the start of this has been pretty dog gone interesting. thank you both. i'm sure we'll speak again very soon. >>> today, some new york ci

understand today, matthew, the main one was gary farrow, a former banker who worked with michael cohen when michael cohenl company that transferred money to stormy daniels's lawyer, the hush payment that is at the centre of the case. that banker said that he would have asked more questions if he knew that account wasn't being set up for real estate consulting but instead was made to help a presidential candidate, and for money to go to an adult film star. so, he really laid out the fact that he put the onus on michael going there to be honest with the bank. we had a few witnesses because of the prosecution to introduce evidence, we saw donald trump at rallies denying that he knew any of the women who had made claims of affairs or inappropriate touching against them, such as stormy daniels, and they aired a clip where he called michael cohen a great and talented your lawyer and a friend of his. . ~ talented your lawyer and a friend of his. ., ~ , ., ., ., talented your lawyer and a friend of his. ., ~ ., ., ., , ~ to the middle east — where hamas leaders, are considering a new ceasefire proposalfrom israe

they got a court ordered search warrant to search michael cohen's choffice, and they seiz business records and e-mails and documents. and then michael cohen was told he was going to be charged with federal crimes. and thenit michael cohen struck plea deal with special prosecutors with the u.s. attorneys t office in the southn district of new york. cohen pled guilty to campaign finance violations and other charges. he admitted that he had arranged this payment to ms. daniels and also to another woman who says that she had a nine-month long affair with trump. he says he arranged these payments. he coordinated to make sure these women would get paid to stay quiet about their allegations of infidelity in order to help trump's presidential campaign. now, when michael cohen pled guilty president trump responded by calling him a rat. that'sim nice. when michael cohen pled guilty, he admitted in federal court he hadn't paid out this hush money of otherwise own accord, he admitted in court filings, he swore in person in federal court he'd been directed to make these payments by his boss, by donald trump. he effectively said, yes, i committed this

michael cohen. this is going to take it from the ami deal to direct negotiations with michael cohen, where michael cohen made the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels under a code name that they used, stormy daniels and keith davidson. and that eventually they're going to ultimately try to get that donald trump paid michael cohen back and knew what he was doing. donald trump is walking out right now. the court is in a short recess. eric trump is there for the first time. we have been talking about how the family wasn't there. i have ten seconds left, but tell me what does it mean to have eric there? >> i think it is important for the people who are really paying attention. he did not have any of his family members there before and so the fact that now someone has finally showed up on his behalf is probably a good thing, but the question is are you going to stay and are you going to continue to be there? >> you say finally, only been a week. thank you very much. chuck rosenberg, catherine christian, love the polka dots today, my friend. court is in recess. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell

michael cohen. this is going to take it from the ami deal to direct negotiations with michael cohen, where michael cohen30,000 payment to stormy daniels under a code name that they used, stormy daniels and keith davidson. and that eventually they're going to ultimately try to get that donald trump paid michael cohen back and knew what he was doing. donald trump is walking out right now. the court is in a short recess. eric trump is there for the first time. we have been talking about how the family wasn't there. i have ten seconds left, but tell me what does it mean to have eric there? >> i think it is important for the people who are really paying attention. he did not have any of his family members there before and so the fact that now someone has finally showed up on his behalf is probably a good thing, but the question is are you going to stay and are you going to continue to be there? >> you say finally, only been a week. thank you very much. chuck rosenberg, catherine christian, love the polka

that's what they are trying to establish with michael cohen and donald trump, even though michael cohen michael cohen to say he is someone with a vendetta against donald trump, the prosecution is building up to that moment where michael cohen will be on the stand and he is really the key witness and he has already pleaded guilty to campaignfinance he has already pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations that to 2018. , ., ., 2018. proceedings are due to get under way but — 2018. proceedings are due to get under way but we _ 2018. proceedings are due to get under way but we heard - 2018. proceedings are due to get under way but we heard donald l 2018. proceedings are due to get - under way but we heard donald trump once again talking about the opinion polls and his various, it is hard to know quite the truth in what he was saying around what he says is his lead in the swing states but has there been some polling around what effect this actual trial may or may not be having on his popularity? yes, he did reference a cnn poll which does show donald trump is maintaining a lead overjoe b

michael cohen case. he was famously described as individual one. and michael cohen attested in federal court that in the commission of the crimes he was pleading guilty to, o he acted coordination with and at the direction of individual one, aka donald trump. and michael cohen had receipts to back this up, literal receipts. when he was called to testify before congress, you may remember he brought with him c copies of thet checks that wer given to him to reimburse him for making the illegal payment. checks signed in some cases by donald j. trump. many of them signed while trump was in the white house. and it was w -- it was all an amazing spectacle, right? i mean, other presidents maybe stooped someone or made get involved in a campaign finance scandal, f but illegal hush mon payments to not one, but two alleged t mistresses with reimbursement checks for one of the illegal payments signed in the white house. i mean, eh. a, gross. b, not your typical presidential scandal. we're already in unprecedented territory here. butce that's not actually the mt important point,

they're basing their belief that they can on the fact that all of this goes back to michael cohen and how michael cohen is going to look on the stand and you saw this back-and-forth here. just now we talked about it with the money, the payments, and cohen saying, oh, there's an issue here. oh, there's an issue with secret service. there's a paywall. they're going to use. >> they being the defense the reasoning from all of these witnesses that it was michael doing this on his own? >> and they're also going to try to paint him as a liar. and again, their goal is just to get one person who is watching in that audience, in that jury box to be sympathetic for donald trump. >> well, and also i mean, mr. brennan is a wise attorney and i think an honorable guy. >> and even if you thought, hey, he probably did it. >> if you were on that jury not you as an altar, you not the one that actually worked for donald trump at one point, but you might think and they didn't prove it. >> and jake, you you astutely pointed out it's not enough, maybe what is sure to coulda it's beyond a reasonable doubt. it's the highest st

trump knew about it, whether trump knew at the time that his payments to michael cohen were, in fact, a reimbursement to michael cohen for fronting the hushhe money to stormy daniels. >> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? then why did michael cohen make this if -- >> you'll have to ask michael cohen. michael's my attorney. and you'll have to ask michael. >> what trump knew about that reimbursement system and when he knew it will also be central to the case, a which is what makes these less recognizable names also veryec interesting. jeffrey mcconney and madeleine. mcconney was the former controlleras for the trump administration. he would have had t access and maybe needed to approve the payments to michael cohen, which were all classified as payments for legal services. trump's oval office secretary during the period when cohen was being reimbursed by trump. because trump was doing all this reimbursing when he was in the white house as president, she a front row seat. and that's not even the whole potential witness list. joining me now to discuss our msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin and k

michael cohen. they have all know this figure. we all know michael cohen, the fixer, the attorney. he will be a key witness. they will tell the jury you're going to hear from michael cohen. and one thing that the prosecutors are going to do is they're going to have to as we say, pull the staying, they're gonna have to say look, folks, you've heard, you will hear that he's pled guilty to perjury and other crimes, but the prosecution will argue now he's come clean. now you can bank on him. we also expect the prosecution to look forward to who it's other key witnesses will be to introduce those to the jury, including david, who we expect to be the first witness today, just to be clear, i'm pointing out here karen mcdougal, who is somebody who was allegedly paid $150,000 by david. but she hurricanes was not a criminal charge foundation. it's about stormy daniels payment. that's an issue here. exactly. right. and the evidence that mcdougal will be introduced by the prosecutors to show that this is a pattern. one more key theme we'll hear from the prosecutors. they will say that everythin

michael cohen case was a federal case. when michael cohen pled guilty, the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, the federal prosecutor running the office investigating and prosecuting cohen, that was a u.s. attorney named jeffrey berman. jeffrey berman is a lifelong republican, he was appointed to his post at fdny by president trump, he worked on the trump campaign and the trump transition, but after jeff berman was fired from the trump administration, after he was fired by the u.s. attorney in fdny, he wrote a book about what happened to him in that job, and one of the things he described in detail, was about the michael cohen case. according to jeffrey berman, running that u.s. attorney's office, after michael cohen pled guilty and was sentenced to three years in prison for this crime, president trump's appointees of the u.s. the part of justice in washington, maine justice, they started repeatedly reaching down into berman's office, into fdny, to try to make the whole case basically go away. this is from jeff berman's book called holding the lin

he'd call michael cohen and asked michael cohen what to do. and michael cohen according to david pecker and will hear the cross-examine and what michael cohen has to say about this. but he would say well, let me call the boss and see what he wants to do with the karen mcdougal story with it? other stories. >> what do you want to do about this? >> ironically, this is the kind of scandal that the national enquirer, one of exposed in almost any other scenario. the enquirer had a history for all its flaws, for all of its faults of reporting on politicians on both sides of the aisle. for exposing scandals and controversies and polit politicians. >> words they didn't in this. >> example but instead pecker because he was go ahead, are long relationship with trump and saw a benefit to that enquirer decided to pick a horse, right aside to get in line with trump and create a pro-trump propaganda outlet, which is really what the enquirer was. but he's never fessed up to this until today in court it's not just that part. i mean, if it were just that, then

council about being reimbursed he told michaei— about being reimbursed he told michael cohen, don't reimburse me, it's a _ michael cohen a had _ michael cohen, don't reimburse me, it's a bad idea. the prosecution has used _ it's a bad idea. the prosecution has used that— it's a bad idea. the prosecution has used that to — it's a bad idea. the prosecution has used that to bridge to the stormy daniets— used that to bridge to the stormy daniels payment and explain why, as they allege, michael cohen made the payment _ they allege, michael cohen made the payment to stormy daniels at donald trump's _ payment to stormy daniels at donald trump's direction. but again, back to the _ trump's direction. but again, back to the issue — trump's direction. but again, back to the issue of intent. david packer places— to the issue of intent. david packer places donald trump's concerns about the election— places donald trump's concerns about the election at the forefront of all of their— the election at the forefront of all of their conversations. he says after— of their conversations. he says after a — of their conversations. he says af

michael cohen. i suspect the defense will go to great lengths to discredit michael cohen, in part because michael cohen'scredit michael cohen's testimony despite those problems with his credibility. cohen's testimony will be backed up by other testimony you will hear from witnesses including david pecker and keith davidson as well as an extensive paper trail, and it will all be backed up by donald trump's own words. so one of these things that i feel like we all fell for hook, line and sinker was the idea that because he doesn't e-mail no one can ever prosecute him for anything, nothing will ever stick. well, there's sound of trump on tape talking about paying cash and cohen says no, no, no. if we have that let's pull that up. there are lots of people in the room including donald trump, literally in the room where it all happens. and hope hicks is also scheduled to testify. i think the obsessive focus on michael cohen as a star witness, michael cohen i think has been described to me most recently as the narrator. he's going to tell the story because he walked in both worlds. right? but the documents, the

the public, not known. >> it says, no witnesses and certainly trump waxing poetic about michael cohen. >> michael cohen really gets him in the eye or of the judges we saw before that is his attorney at least when his attorney was trying to defense trump's postings. and so it'll be a notable what the judge does. the judge has to do something to get this on control. we just started the trial and here we go and serums of the hearing about violating a gag one yeah. >> i'm not sure. i'm surprised by any of that. considering what i've learned covering donald trump for how many years, but but here we are at joey, what do you expect in terms of what we're going to see on the stand, we know that david pecker, the former publisher of the national enquirer, going to be back up there. they have been kind of building in something have a crescendo to the point of the stormy daniel story, which we haven't really dug into yet. are you expecting that today? >> what are you looking for yeah. >> i think that's it. i think i'm looking for a couple of things. certainly we know just in terms of resetting that pecker being a

expected to be of course, then strongly daniels himself and mcdonnell and trump's former lawyer, michael cohen cohen, he pleaded, guilty last year and served the federal prison, prison time to be a very important witness for the prosecution was in his full joining us from washington, thank you so much. they also marks the 1st anniversary of the start of su don's civil war, which has killed thousands and triggered the world's largest crisis of displaced people. and international donors conference is being held in paris with the united nations, appealing for some $4000000000.00 and $8.00, the u. n. says some 18000000 people 3rd of students population needs food assistance for their survival. we'll speak about that in just a minute. but before we do, let's have a look back at how the conflict began. citing your reps and students capital in april 2023. a power struggle between 2 rival generals spills out onto the streets of cartoon. when a deal on transitioning to civilian rule falls apart. at the center of the conflicts are abdel side to alber had the effective ruler of sudan and mohammed him down the

one of the prosecutors course, michael cohen and then the judge as well from michael cohen, you know, what i have heard from a lot of trump's sources is, well, how was it fair that michael cohen gets to attack donald trump, but donald trump can't say anything, can't, can attack michael cohen in return. and yesterday, trump attacked michael cohen first michael cohen responded on twitter going after him. i do think that's a question of how does the judge handle that? >> it's in the eyes of the law to simple, right? he is the defendant, michael cohen is presumed to be one of the key witnesses in this case. you cannot attack him, which remember this is extraordinary when we're thinking how this already isn't it in the court of public opinion, because both of these menn have enormous platforms and they just attack each other relentless, same and some of michael cohen's attacks on trump, i can't even repeat on camera, right? because of the language that he used. >> but the fact is right now, trump is a criminal defendant, michael cohen has been in the past, but he is not right now. >> he is

he has less credibility problems than michael cohen and also he corroborates the documents and cohen'sestimony. in the end, david pecker may be the state's star witness, not michael cohen, who really may just be sort of a side show when this is all said and done. >> i want to ask you about that. because the other problem they're going to have going after michael cohen, he did the crimes for trump. he did them for trump. he didn't just on his own -- we'll come right back. jill, thank you very much. adam and danny are staying with me. >> trump built his reputation on the back pages of the tabloids. why the prosecution think its first witness as we just mentioned, the aforementioned former publisher david pecker played a central role. chris counahan for leaffilter— the permanent gutter solution that protects your home in so many ways, it takes more than one chris to explain it. but together, i think we've got the job covered. like leaffilter's has your gutters covered. protecting you from getting up on this thing to clean out your gutters ever again. and you know how else leaffilter prote

michael cohen. it's not going to be the michael cohen was doing this for the benefit financial or otherwise of michael cohen. it's michael cohen was the fixer. he wanted to ingratiation himself to trump. you want it to be someone who is useful and valuable to trump. and so he went off on his own and work things out. and then the big question, as laura was saying, is how much of that planning to donald trump know about to what extent was he involved in the nuances and to what extent was he sort of arm's distance and just just tell me what i need to know. >> the prosecutor is going to have to prove, even even point of whether trump has intimated or not. >> you got to look for the attaboy at the ends, right? that's the part we're seeing a lot of text messages already coming in to confirm and what we all interpret the deal to be. you hear it from this manner testifying right now, we hear rather people. so if at the end of this, donald trump has only intimated and at the end he's black like, good job. remember we've already heard david pecker write that donald trump said thank you, thank you for handling t

michael cohen and stormy daniels herself. at this point i'm sure most of america has seen the checks donald trump signed paying michael cohen. michael cohen and stormy daniels both have been very public about how cohen paid stormy daniels for her silence. none of that is in dispute, but what trump has disputed since the story first became public in 2018 was whether trump knew about it, whether trump knew at the time that his payments to michael cohen were, in fact, a reimbursement to michael cohen for fronting the hush money to stormy daniels. >> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> michael's my attorney and you'll have to ask michael. >> do you know where he got the money to make that payment? >> no, i don't know. >> what trump knew about that reimbursement system and when he knew it will also be central to the case, which is what makes these less recognizable names also very interesting, jeffrey mcconnie. he would have had access and maybe needed to approve the payments to michael cohen which were all classified as payments for legal services. westerhaut was the oval office secretary and because tru

if there's a defense witness that could undermine michael cohen's testimony, it's probably allen weisselberg, isn't it? >> it is. but i think michael cohenhen because he's rich with all sorts of material you can challenge him with, the things he says, his the intent, his motive, his change of story, his own convictions. if you recall at one point trump said you shouldn't be able to testify michael cohen because of your history and what you've found to misrepresent. that's not how the law works. you can cross examine him but can't preclude him. also the prosecution is not putting it solely on michael cohen's shoulders. it's not the michael cohen opportunity. it's beyond and more. >> you can see already from the list of witnesses this is not going to be just michael cohen although he'll certainly figure largely in it. it does seem just reading the tea leaves, donald trump does not want this trial to start, right? i think every single day this week and it's only wednesday, he has filed a request to stay the trial for some different reason each day, and he's been summarily rejected each and every time. how unusual is that? >> to have an arti

the prosecution has tried to distance themselves from michael cohen. michael cohen himself has said, this case isn't about me. as we have seen, it's only going to be about michael cohen in his credibility or lack there of. because he's the only person we think we can tie to any criminal acts. to believe somebody with that kind of track record and history of fraudulent convictions, any sort of dishonest history like that, it's going to be an annihilation. >> bill: did you see andy mccarthy's piece this week? did you see that? >> dana: he writes about seven articles a day. >> bill: hang on. i had to find the quote so i could be accurate here. roy cohn taught donald trump a lot about law and new york, and his number one rule was, don't tell me what the law is, tell me who the judges. andy mccarthy went on seven pages about the judge. now he's playing to the state. do you see it the same way? >> i think that, in a case where you have such an obvious credibility issue which your only viable witness, i would hope a jury could overlook any sort of issues with any of the re

he may be able to shed light on the pressure michael cohen felt and what michael cohen was being instructed to do is they kind of been trying to say, well, michael cohen was acting on his in his own accord. >> yeah, that's a great point because remember, davidson is the one who receives the money from that shell company and we heard earlier from mr. pharaoh just how urgent mr. cohen seemed in this entire matter, how quickly he was trying to move things along and how swiftly that movie money moved to that account and then back out to mr. davidson so davidson's testimony here about what was happening with mr. cohen with that money at this critical time, shortly after the access hollywood tape, days before the election. this is really going to set the stage for the prosecution's case. >> we also talk about nda's so much these non-disclosure agreements and todd blanche, when they were talking about them previously, the david pecker kinda tried to make it seem commonplace. we talked about efforts with arnold schwarzenegger and mark wahlberg and other tiger woods, other celebrities and karen, i m

she's going to corroborate michael cohen corroborates michael cohen, michael cohen corroborates it's from my standpoint, this is an overwhelming case you have you have the documents as well. >> and so calm and of course, he's got to get up and any any good opposing counsel is going to impeach him, any witness that is on the stand is open. two impeachment to cast light on their character for untruthfulness. so we know that's going to happen. and it's no surprise. there. but all the other elements, the other testimony will hear the recorded phone conversations and the documents all hang together and corroborate the evidence that the people are presented but don't forget, we haven't heard all the evidence. >> just the opening. >> it's funded it's attackers, one day one of what will be four to six weeks of this trial. >> everyone stand for us. we've got some breaking news coming up. we're now getting word that one of trump's co-defendants in his class if i documents case was told that he would be pardoned once trump was elected. but what does that mean for that case? and we have more brea

michael cohen and of course stormy daniels herself. now at this point i'm sure most of america has seen the checks donald trump signed paying michael cohen. michael cohen and stormy daniels both have been public about how michael cohen page stormy done daniels for her silence. one that is in dispute. what trump has disputed since the story became public in 2018 was whether trump knew about it. whether ciampa knew at the time that his payments to michael cohen were in fact a reimbursement to michael cohen for fronting the hush money to stormy daniels.>> what trump knew about that reimbursement system and when he knew it will also be central to the case. which is what makes these less recognizable names also very interesting. jeffrey mccarney and madeline -- mccarney was the former controller for the trump organization. he would've had access and may be even needed to approve the payments to michael cohen. which we are all classified as payments for legal services. wester house was trump's oval office secretary cohen was being reimbursed by trump. because trump was doing all of this reimbursing while he was in the white house as the presid

>> but like michael cohen or stormy? michael cohen, stormy daniels, david we're going to say, and also if there are audio tapes things like that, i think that he gets triggered pretty easily if past is prologue. >> so let's see, i think his lawyers every day or reminding him to try to behave, he gets a lollipop today, though, pretty well-behaved yes. gym today in opening statements, trump's defense attorney todd blanche trump is something of just a regular guy saying, quote, he's a man, he's a husband who's a father, who's a person just like you and just like me can the defense successfully convinced the jury that trump is just a regular guy with regular reactions, regular emotions. i mean he is a rather larger than life figure so i think two things, a couple of things. >> one, you to star witnesses in the case for the defense in this matter and koan, right. >> both have a lot of baggage, right? for the obvious reasons stated earlier, cohen, because of his vendetta his alleged vendetta against trump. right. so that's coming front-and-

michael cohen is making money from the case on tiktok. doesn't that violate some kind of rule? >> no. no gag orders for michael cohenonald trump as he a awaits his turn on the witness stand. michael cohen's been attacking trump on social media and talking about the system that has -- the testimony that has occurred so far. his nightly live streams on tiktok appear to be earning him financial benefit through viewer donations. while this doesn't seem to violate any existing court order, legal experts say it hurts his horrifically-bad credibility as a witness and in turn hurts the prosecution case because be you don't want your key witness talking about the case outside of court. they say the trump team is pouring over these live streams in an effort to weaponize them against the prosecution. when you think about what a gag order is for, it is done to protect individuals like michael cohen, but michael cohen goes out there and does everything to undo the protection. this case boppingers. stuart: you are a reformed lawyer. what do you make of the prosecution's case so far? >> what they are doing is 100 to % clearly tryi

michael cohen's lies. interesting, we will hear _ michael cohen's lies. s lies. interesting, we will hear from the first - michael cohen's lies. interesting, | we will hear from the first witness in a moment, david packer — this phrase" catch and kill" is something we will all be repeating at nausea and i'm sure afterwards, just talk us through the rule of him and why he's being called first.— he's being called first. david packer was _ he's being called first. david packer was at _ he's being called first. david packer was at the _ he's being called first. david packer was at the centre - he's being called first. david packer was at the centre ofl he's being called first. david i packer was at the centre of this catch and kill scheme, he worked with the national enquirer, a tabloid in the us, and he was essentially buying stories in coordination with trunk, negative stories that would've hurt trump from a playboy playmate and at one point potentially stormy daniels to buy those stories and not publish them, so to catch them and kill them. they prosecution

let's michael cohen isn't very easy to show. michael cohen committed crime given he spent time in prison yeah, he pled to the federal offense, which is a little different than the falsifying documents, which is the state offense. the hilt say he committed a crime, so it won't be that hard. but you want to establish exactly how he committed the crime, which is through this financing and then tied donald trump right to that what do i think what stood out to me this week is the entire defense is starting to take shape, are starting to understand how they're going to present their defense. >> and it's largely through the people's witnesses rather than going on the attack and going on the offensive against the witnesses that have testified so far, there sort of embracing the facts but saying yeah, these things happened. yeah, there was hush money paid, but we've been doing that. that was being done for everybody, wasn't had nothing to do with the election. this is just a business model and this is how it went. this is essentially how david pecker

called 90% of the time that michael cohen called him, it was a crisis michael cohen was losing his mind about something. and so i think the picture is going to be paid and that michael cohen unhinged. an unhinged actor that was acting in his own capacity here and is still doing it every night. he's live streaming for eight hours, making heart symbol. i mean, there's a lot of stuff that he's doing right now that i'm sure you're going to see in this trial it's pretty unflattering for michael cohen there's another key part, les davidson's testimony, you're looking at right? >> again, back to this idea of the impact on the campaign you're going to keep hearing this throughout the trial. keith davidson says, at one point, i think i was at this point in time, karen, this is mcdougal was teetering between two competing deals and we'd requested a meeting where each entity could make a pitch as to why they were the correct avenue for karen to bring her story forward. >> okay how did you respond to that davidson? >> i'm good. throw in an ambassadorship for me. i'm thinking the

michael cohen's shoulders. it is not just the michael cohen opportunity. more. >> you can see from the list of witnesses we know about but this is not going to just be michael cohen. he will figure largely in it. it does seem, just reading the tea leaves, which have not been startled, donald trump does not want this trial to start. i think every single day this week, and it is only wednesday he has filed a request to stay the trial for some different reason each day. he has been summarily rejected each and every time. how unusual is that? >> to have article 78 used in this way is unusual. >> an article 78 is ? >> it is challenging part of the judges decision saying it is improper, i will go to a higher court, the appellate court, give it to a judge and say this is capricious, it's not based in law, it is a mistake. he's going to fail and he's going to fail and he has failed. at some point, he has to move forward. the judge is saying this has to go forward. not to minimize or belittle the former president but despite his facade, despite his boisterous behavi

michael cohen. and the weakness that arthur just pointed out is, well, how do you know that michael cohen was truly acting on donald trump's path? you can't assume you're right. maybe michael cohen when was just a free agent and michael collins not super reliable, but the chain here is david pecker makes contact with donald trump, who essentially hands him off to michael congress has cohen's going to handle this youtube, go and do your thing. i'll have michael cohen call you back in a few days. one of the things though that david pecker said today and correct me if i'm wrong on the stand, was that according to him trump was very detailed oriented and actually paid attention to a lot of the mundane details of this transaction. uh, he's not saying that he was aware that the line item was a legal fee, but he's indicating trump was very much involved in this. and what you just read, john also backs that up, that according to cohen and we're cohen will probably testifies that donald trump is breathing down his neck very closely following the karen mcdougal. >> he talked about how he would sit with trump

we were thinking, michael cohen is the star witness and how will they corroborate michael cohen. and i really think the way to think about this case is this case is made very much without michael cohen. i mean, this is so corroborated and it is not just that you have david pecker and now keith davidson, they're stories are just hand and glove. i mean, they fit together so perfectly. and they tell a complex story. i mean, something that if you were making it up, it wouldn't be -- it would be kind of intricacy and also it is completely corroborated particularly with respect to mr. davidson by so many texts and email exchanges an the written documents. this is one where with almost every question there is a reference to a document so that the jurors could see there is no question about what he is saying. it is completely backed up. so by the time you get to michael cohen, i think the way that i think this is going to be summed up on by the prosecution, is to say, you know what, if michael cohen had said anything else, you would have thought he was lying. it is so completely consisten

guest: trump has said he was paying his personal lawyer, michael cohen, money, he called it a retainer michael cohen said there was no retainer. michael cohen's lawyer was the one who arranged for the payment of $130,000 to stormy daniels. trump says he just paid his lawyer and the lawyer was executing a nondisclosure agreement with daniels. it was just a personal contract and had nothing to do with the campaign. cohen and daniels are potential witnesses for the trial to discuss what they considered a payment to keep her quiet before the election. host: 34 criminal charges if convicted of any or all, what punishment will the former president possibly face? guest: there are four year terms for each of the 34 counts. that's what you may have heard. trump will sometimes say that he is threatened with 136 years in prison and that if he is convicted him all of the counts and they would run consecutively. typically, even if convicted as a first-time offense, it's a relatively shorter term for a felony charge and the range would be somewhere below four years and the counts would run concurrently rather tha

guest: trump has said he was paying his personal lawyer, michael cohen, money, he called it a retainer michael cohen said there was no retainer. michael cohen's lawyer was the one who arranged for the payment of $130,000 to stormy daniels. trump says he just paid his lawyer and the lawyer was executing a nondisclosure agreement with daniels. it was just a personal contract and had nothing to do with the campaign. cohen and daniels are potential witnesses for the trial to discuss what they considered a payment to keep her quiet before the election. host: 34 criminal charges if convicted of any or all, what punishment will the former president possibly face? guest: there are four year terms for each of the 34 counts. that's what you may have heard. trump will sometimes say that he is threatened with 136 years in prison and that if he is convicted him all of the counts and they would run consecutively. typically, even if convicted as a first-time offense, it's a relatively shorter term for a felony charge and the range would be somewhere below four years and the counts would run concurrently rather tha

to provide testimony that michael cohen pled guilty, so he wants to elicit testimony will from michael cohens says this explains why michael cohen changed his tune with his guilty plea and the defendant's attacks began the day after his guilty plea, and that is critical, and i will point out that michael cohen is very much like a co-defendant testifying against his co-defendant. so again, we are now, what is it, two hours into this day one of this history in the making ex-president on trial in criminal court. they're supposed to be going over jury selection, and they are still going over what is admissible, what is not, and potential testimony from some very key witnesses, guys. >> yasmin, do we know anything about trump's misdemeanor inside the courtroom? >> reporter: i mean, we are getting some color from inside the courtroom, and i just want to kind of paint a picture for you because there are only, i believe, six pool reporters that are allowed inside the courtroom along with obviously secret service, the defense team, the prosecution team as well, and then there's the overflow team, rig

michael cohen's testimony. so saying, hey, of the president going through cohen to talk two each time, if that's the case now we're really relying on michael cohen's word. i would donald trump was telling him, so i think here you're not going to get a win. you're not gonna get a knockout, you're just trying to chip away at the edges of what the prosecution trying to prove that you can argue it and your closing argument what do you think trump thinks was amazing, breathtaking testimony. i mean, he detailed catch and kill schemes that he believed that he actually had an apparent karen mcdougal, that they weren't paying money back for what they'd cotton killed in the past, like i wasn't in the room where it happened, but i was listening. >> i think it goes to really the strongest defendants here, which is so what which is listen, this is what people do like donald trump. this is what celebrities do they don't want bad information coming out. they work these deals out. the government has to prove that there was an intent for donald trump to falsify records and that there was an intent to cover up this election crimes.

about this trial is that you will see him sitting across from michael cohen, who whether you agree or not with the charges that michael cohen faced and the time that he served, that is a life that donald trump was -bent on ruining in anticipation of the fact that this man, his lawyer, one of his most trusted aides, could testify against him and take him down. that is what he does. and trust me, he won't stop with michael cohen, he is going to make people involved in this trial, whether he is exonerated or not, he is going to make them feel like they will pay for having been involved in it and that is deeply chilling. >> you know, it seems like there is, everything in our system is designed to protect donald trump's rights, he is innocent until and guilty. and donald trump seems -bent on perverting a system that is structured to protect him. >>, a little bit distorted, doesn't it? you know, i hear from a lot of people how can there be all these delays? how can he get all of these breaks? how can he get all these benefits? the system is designed to ensure that, it is designed, they often say, to ensure that it is better than

michael cohen going on? >> out of the gate, it's, i mean, being cruel to people who are acting sophomoric to say that michael cohens being sophomoric. so the donald trump. they can't control trump, but they can control cohen. >> can they? >> if you let me finish my sentence. to a certain point, they can. they can be on top of him and tell him you are going to subject yourself on the stand. we're going to try to take some of the steam and bring out your credibility issues because they're going to cross you on it but the more you do it, the more you're going to be portrayed and in fact, will be a guy who has an agenda who lacks credibility, who when you leave this courtroom when you're done, it's going to be following you for the rest of your days. is that what you want to do? and don't ruin this case. we're doing everything we can to find those pieces to corroborate you so it's not just on your shoulder. whether it's david pecker. whether it's any witness who's come before us. but if you continue to do that, you are going to damn this case and that's going to be on you and we can only protect you so much. >> we don