it is what michael copps was talking about.e had these old media companies -- nbc -- joining with the cable companies, buying up internet startups. there is this integration, the merging of the new and the old that doesn't fit into the sort of myth we've been telling ourselves. >> and where does google, facebook fit into this? companies that portray themselves as upstarts 10 years ago have now become the biggest companies on earth. the market capitalization of google and apple, consistently in the top 10 technology companies. 13 of the biggest -- 13 of the 30 biggest companies on earth. goliaths of our age. we have hollywood moguls and silicon tycoons and we have them collaborating. the thing is, the old 80 a model, which was funded by advertising, was a situation where you could turn off your television and opt out. he had much more pervasive, ubiquitous system -- we have a much more pervasive, ubiquitous system right now. in a way, the old problems have intensified because it is not just something you are watching come in now

if it is concerning to me, commissioner michael copps has the same number. we saw 87 newspapers close because we were unwilling to take some steps so that there could be more partnerships between journalists who work for media companies and those who work for newspapers. i was really sad about the potential for really great partnership, really good friends of mine to move forward. there are so many things the commission could have already done that would have enabled investment in these properties, a journalist could do in-depth reporting, and bytes of news, and more investment. if they were able to have the revenues to do that. >> you are correct, newspaper broadcast ownership, prevents one entity for newspaper, and the same market in most situations. we put in in 1975. we were trying to get rid of it. and the reason we put it in, changed remarkably in the marketplace. but michael copps has different views. >> i would take issue with it, more reporters walking the street looking for a job rather than covering the story because of the excess of consolidation