excellency, michael dukakis. >> midway through a successful third term as governor of massachusetts, sees himself as a knight clad in armor made from the american dream. >> we thought that he was in a good place to be running, having served as governor for quite a few years. what he had done in massachusetts was something that would resonate across the country. >> if he were running for president, a haircut with george the greek would mean this little barber shop would be filled with secret service agents. dukakis says it's not an easy decision. >> i'll never forget my older daughter saying to me, dad, very few people have this opportunity. you've got a responsibility to do this. >> thank you all very much. thank you. today a son of greek immigrants named mike dukakis announces his candidacy for the presidency of the united states. >> anyone who has been within six counties of michael dukakis has heard the story of massachusetts, how a run down state with double-digit unemployment became one of the hottest economies in the country. >> dukakis' campaign will be run by his chief of sta

[upbeat music] ♪ - michael dukakis and mitt romney may have been two of the most talented people evero run for president. harvard law graduates, successful governors of massachusetts, with reputations not only for technocratic efficiency but integrity as well. so why did neither man ever make it all the way to the white house? well, therein lies the real heart of what it takes to become president. the campaigns of michael dukakis and mitt romney remind us once again that talent alone is rarely enough. defining yourself as a candidate, and perhaps more importantly, the ability to refashion the picture painted by the opposition is absolutely key. - my dad had advice. he said, "mitt, don't ever get involved in politics "unless your kids are raised "and you become independent financially, "because you wouldn't want to have to run for office "counting on winning the election to pay your mortgage." things finally developed in a way that i, late in my career, decided to get involved. we can do better in crime, in welfare, re-engaging our poor. - mitt is a man of deep conviction. he believes

why people do this. >> -- once soared almost to the top of american politics. 1988 was the year michael dukakisn at the white house. >> we're going to win this race. we're going to win this race. >> when he first began campaigning -- >> mike dukakis, how are you? >> thank you. appreciate your help. >> do you know this book? i can take a bath? >> the governor of massachusetts had almost no national profile. >> when i came out here 10 or 11 months ago, nobody knew what a dukakis was. >> in just a year he went from national nobody to the democratic nominee. with a big post convention lead over vice president george bush. >> a new nbc news "wall street journal" poll shows dukakis leading george bush. 50 to 32%, 18 point margin. >> how do you blow a lead that big? >> it was an election that could have been won, should have been won and i didn't win it. >> how do you lose to a guy labeled a wimp? >> i made a decision which turned out to be maybe the dumbest decision. that i would simply not respond to the bush campaign. i said no, i won't do it. >> in a move almost unthinkable today, dukakis decided

and michael dukakis in 1988. (bernard shaw, moderator) dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer? (former gov. michael dukakis) i don't see any evidence that it's a deterrent, and i think there are better and more effective ways to deal with violent crime. both responses, considered major missteps. neither would win in november. a well-placed laugh line, however, can win over an audience, maybe even an electorate. like ronald reagan on concerns about his age, during his 1984 re-election bid, at age 73. (president r reagan) i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience. there's no consitutional mandatethat says the presidential and vice presidential candidates have to debate one another. but the audiences are often too great to pass up. during the last election cycle in 2o12, 67-point-2 million viewers watched the first debate between president obama and mitt romney. after mon

and michael dukakis in 1988. (bernard shaw, moderator) governor, if kitty and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer? (former gov. michael dukakis) i don't see any evidence that it's a deterrent, and i think there are better and more effective ways to deal with violent crime. both responses, considered major missteps. neither would win in november. a well-placed laugh line, however, can win over an audience, maybe even an electorate. like ronald reagan on concerns about his age, during his 1984 re-election bid, at age 73. (president ronald reagan) i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience. there's no consitutional mandatethat says the presidential and vice presidential candidates have to debate one another. but the audiences are often too great to pass up. during the last election cycle in 2o12, 67-point-2 million viewers watched the first debate between president obama and mitt romney. afte

and michael dukakis and al gore both lost after poor debate performances. the vice presidential candidates will debate next. on tuesday, october 4th: mike pence and tim kaine will face off at longwood university in farmville, virginia. the second presidential debate - takes place october 9th - at washington university in saint louis. the university of nevada in las vegas will host clinton and trump's final debate - october 19th. 9news will host a state level debate... democratic incumbent michael bennet and republican challenger, darryl glenn - will debate live on 9news on october 11th. it's an hour - moderated by political reporter brandon rittiman -- and 9news anchor kyle clark. it starts at 7 - and can be seen on channel 20 and on 9news dot com. you might have already seen people around in city parks and public places... trying to get everyone registered to vote for either candidate. today is national voter registration day. and on college campuses across our state.... there will be a push to register young voters. new era colorado is holding events on t

and michael dukakis in 1988. (bernard shaw, moderator) governor, if kitty dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?// (former gov. michael dukakis) i don't see any evidence that it's a deterrent, and i think there are better and more effective ways to deal with violent crime. both responses, considered major missteps. neither would win in november. a well-placed laug audience, maybe even an electorate. like ronald reagan on concerns about his age, during his 1984 re-election bid, at age 73. (president ronald reagan) i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience. there's no consitutional mandatethat says the presidential and vice presidential candidates have to debate one another. but the audiences are during the last election cycle in 2o12, 67-point-2 million viewers watched the first debate between president obama and mitt romney. after months of sound bites on the stump, i

you could sound insensitive and cold and mess things up like michael dukakis did back in the day. >> or, if kitty dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer? >> no, i don't, bernard. i think you know that i have opposed the death penalty during all of my life. >> you could forget a key part of your policies like rick perry did. >> it's three agencies of government when i get there that are gone. commerce, education and the -- what's the third one there. let's see. the third one, i can't, sorry. oops. >> or sometimes as we saw with george bush and al gore, it's a matter of personal space. >> it's not only what your philosophy and what your position on issues, but can you get things done. and i believe i can. >> okay. let's talk about this. i want to bring in alan schroeder from northeastern university and author of "presidential debates, 50 years of high risk television." welcome. >> thank you, carol. >> so you say 50 years of high risk television. what do you mean by that? >> well, just the fact that this is live tv, no script, the can

and i covered michael dukakis for a year. i said what do you do for fun? he said black mulch.do you do with black mulch? and he goes, i put it on my tomato plants. that was the level of fun. that wasn't much fun. charlie: actually david wrote a column on something like that. he basically said we don't know what she likes, even with obama you know he loves golf and basketball and books all the time. bill, you know what he liked. maureen: and fred hyatt wrote that trump's big sin is being a bore, b-o-o-r and b-o-r-e. charlie: both of those. maureen: he is like the guy you sit down next to at a dinner and he talks about him. charlie: when you look at obama, somebody else you have written a say,bout , is it fair to in your mind, it is not whether i like them or do not. it is how i see them at moment. maureen: exactly. i am so proud of you for knowing that. that's so true. charlie: how do you see obama at this moment in his presidency as he looks at three or four months to go? maureen:

he ran against michael dukakis and saw firsthand how t first-hn the presidential campaign. when it was over in november of 88, george declined an appointment to work in his father's administration and returned to texas to run for governor but at the same time help organize the texas rangers baseball team. as you recall the washington senators expansion team that had been formed a moved to texas in 1972. they were contenders and the deal to buy the team came through. bush stepped back and for the next four years was the public had of the texas rangers. he owned only 2% of the stalk sk and build a new stadium and basked in the globe. they assisted in 1992 but from a distance he stayed in texas and when clinton won the election set his sights and for the same time decided to run for governor of florida. bush was running again. could against the incumbent and richards was heavily favored. he was favored to defeat the incumbent lawton childs but it was an upset and he won in one n texas, jeb lost in florida and from that point on he became the likely successor to his father. tex

that kind of attitude or michael dukakis saying why am i losing to this guy, george h.w. it does have that feel, right, andy? >> it has that feel. if donald trump can look presidential tonight and come off as somebody people say, you know, i can see this man as president of the united states, i think he's got a very, very good chance of winning. hillary clinton, hillary clinton has to maintain her energy. people are looking to see whether she's got the stamina to get through the debate. and i don't think people are that focused on technical answers to technical questions. i think that will pass, it will be a gotcha and the next day everybody will forget about it. the impression people are going to walk away with is whether he's got the discipline to be president and she's got the energy. >> andy puzder, thank you very much for your time. "lou dobbs tonight" kicks off special presidential debate coverage at 7:00 p.m. with interviews with trump's vice presidential choice mike pence and coach bobby knight, live from hofstra university on fox business. tonight's debate, 90 mi

. >> michael dukakis, 1988 democratic candidate.king the time. >> a pleasure. >> how much does the debate matter? our poll said the debates will have a big impact. 34%. one out of every three voters saying the debates are very important in deciding how they vote. they will talk about that coming up. announcer: todd's a great guy. i mean, look at him. what. a. sweetheart. attaboy. wait, todd, what are you doing? how totally selfish and un-toddlike of you. come on, todd, come on, man. and these are the lungs. (boy) sorry. (dad) don't worry about it. (vo) at our house, we need things that are built to last. that's why we got a subaru. (avo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. >>> when the world trade center came down, i saw something that noplace on earth could have handled more beautifully, more humanely than new york. we rebuilt downtown manhattan and everybody in the world watched and everybody in the world loved new york and new yorkers and i have to you that was a very insulting statement that ted made. >> a lot of people th

michael dukakis regretted the way he answered the question about what if your wife were raped at presidentialate. so they had regrets about mistakes, which by the way they blame on themselves asks they never stop thinking about it, wolf. it is something they just never forget. >> you have done an excellent job and we're all looking forward to the documentary tonight gloria. gloria's special report later tonight "almost president:the agony of defeat" 9:00 p.m. eastern and pacific only on cnn. and ahead. much more. if you're searching other travel sites to find a better price... ...stop clicking around... the lowest prices on our hotels are always at hilton.com. so pay less and get more only at hilton.com. what's going on here? i'm val, the orange money retirement squirrel from voya. we're putting away acorns. you know, to show the importance of saving for the future. so you're sort of like a spokes person? more of a spokes metaphor. get organized at voya.com. remember here at ally, nothing stops us from doing right by our customers. who's with me? i'm in. i'm in. i'm in. i'm in. ♪ ♪ one, two,

michael dukakis and i talk to them about what it is like to lose in this great public failure. think of anything much like it in our life, failing on this kind of a public stage and how they dealt with it, how they came back with it and what it was like going through the campaign and losing. >> up next for us, colin powell unplugged. the former secretary of state's e-mail is hacked and his true feelings about both hillary clinton and donald trump are revealed. here's a tease. he is really an equal opportunity offender. that's next. where we explore. protecting biodiversity. everywhere we work. defeating malaria. improving energy efficiency. developing more clean burning natural gas. my job? my job at exxonmobil? turning algae into biofuels. reducing energy poverty in the developing world. making cars go further with less. fueling the global economy. and you thought we just made the gas. ♪ energy lives here. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine.

pop pa ran against michael dukakis and george saw first hand how to run a presidential campaign. when the election was over into november, of 88 george declined an offer to work in his father's administration and returned to texas. he started an informal campaign to run for governor but at the same time held organize a cindy cat to buy the texas rangers baseball team. the rangers, you may recall, are the old washington senators expansion team, an expansion team formed here in 1961.at moved to texas in 1972. they were scarce scarcely pennant contenders and the deal to buy the team came through. bush stepped back from running for governor and for the next four years was the public head of the texas rangers. he owns only two percent of the stock. built a new stadium and really basked in the blow of an improving baseball -- the glow of an improving baseball franchise. bush assist northwest his father's reflex 1992 and -- but from a distance he stayed in texas, and when clinton won the election he set his sights on running for governor of texas. jeb decided to run for governor of flor

i covered michael dukakis for i year. i said what do you do for fun? he said black mulch. what do you do with black mulch? i put it on my tomato plants. that wasn't much fun. charlie: actually david wrote a column on something like that. he basically said we don't know what she likes, even with obama u know he loves golf and bubble and books become babble and books all the time. bill, you know what he liked. >> and fred hyatt wrote that trump's big thing is being a charlie: both of those. maureen: he is like the guy you sit down at a dinner and he talks about him. charlie: is it fair to say, in your mind it is not whether i like them or do not. it is how i see them at moment. maureen: exactly. i am so proud of you for knowing that. so true. charlie: how do you see obama at this moment in his presidency as he looks at three or four months to go. >>'s numbers are going up because people compare him to the vulgar. they are getting another take shigoss.mission us -- mi they do not want to go back to 1600 where donors are in the lincoln bedroom and on air force one. his numbers

bush was able to crush michael dukakis. the willie horton ad. that has been the story in campaigns.me up with a devastating ad like that, you can get an enormous political benefit from it. that takes us to the most important number of the day. that number is five. what does five have to do with it? if you add up the spending from the trump campaign and the pro trump super pacs and the clinton campaign and the super pacs, it is a five to one advantage for hillary clinton's side. we have never in the modern television age seen this disparity. usually it's pretty even. if you look at it right now, this is the amount of money clinton has spent on the tv adds and about $120 million less from the trump side of things. a little bit more even in 2012. romney's side outspending obama's side, but a five to one difference. if you believe the old rules apply about how if you have more on the airwaves, you should be killing your opponent in the polls, that doesn't explain what it happening. donald trump's side is barely making a dent when it comes to the tv ad wars. look at the swing states he i

bush was caught looking at his watch when michael dukakis spoke. democrat al gore in 2000 was caught rolling his eyes in a split screen as george w. bush earnestly spoke. sometimes those are the things that the pundits and viewers remember. those are the moments that sometimes actually outdo the content of the debate. and, finally, this is only, let's remember, the first, the first of a trilogy. if a candidate flubs it, it won't necessarily be a knock out. we'll have two more. nevertheless, this is a fresh chance for the candidates to make a new first impression at a time when the voters will be watching and listening carefully. and you know what? those first 15 minutes will set the tone for the night. >> and you bring up a point, in history candidates have lost that first debate and then come back and done well. i mean, you mentioned there are three of them. it seems like there's going to be a huge response to all of it i'll bet. >> and case in point, 2012, obama came out and just didn't come to play. romney ran right over him. but the second and

like reagan's, there you go again, geniality, and michael dukakis' bloodless remark on kiddie dukakisto the soul, debates are. they say. >> just like your eyes, john. >> the eyes. >> great to see everybody. 9:00 short -- silence. nine short hours left is all the candidates have to perfect every one liner, eye roll, sigh, look at their watch, head shake, nod. you count it. what are the candidates doing during this crunch time? that's coming up. is that ice-t? nope, it's lemonade. is that ice-t? lemonade. ice-t? what's with these people, man? lemonade, read the sign. lemonade. read it. ok. delicious. ice-t at a lemonade stand? surprising. what's not surprising? how much money marin saved by switching to geico. yo, ice-t! it's lemonade, man! fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. >>> welcome to "inside politics." i'm john king. thanks for sharing time with us on this important day. donald trump and hillary clinton square off here tonight at hofstra university. at 43 days out this race is extremely tight. one new national poll out today shows trump up two points in a four

if you are going back to 1988, al gore introduced willie horton in to the conversation against michael dukakis to 2008, obviously sid blumenthal did go to the mcclatchy reporter. they did send somebody who, by the way, found out no he was not born there. but it's not just that. it's interesting, as well -- this is a little obscure but there was a rumor in 2007, 2008, that michelle obama went to a black church and used the term "whitey." that rumor was started by a liberal blogger, advanced by our friend bob beckel, who's a democratic strategist. he was at a different network at the time. >> what's that have to do with hillary clinton? >> i think it is interesting that democrats have pushed some of these racial issues in the past. that doesn't excuse what donald trump did. but if the question is does hillary clinton bear responsibility to her starting it, her allies certainly. >> no, she does not. this has been proven over and over and over again. we -- corey and all of trump's supporters can say that hillary clinton started this until they are blue in the face, but it doesn't make it true. add

we saw that with romney and michael dukakis in the past. if you're boring, even if you're clear, that's not enough. she needs a reason to inspire her base and make sure they show up and donald trump's side like reagan in 1980 ando i have the temperament to be commander in chief? >> and let me bring you in. the temperament issue keeps coming up with donald trump. when you look at some of the polls, that's what's concerning people. is it enough for donald trump to go 90 minutes without saying something that he would normally tweet and that maybe he will tweet as soon as the debate the over? is that enough? is that the bar you want to live with this in country? >> i think carlos makes a great point. i do think this is a lot like 1980, tamron, and coming back down to the composure over 90 minutes and it's much like 1980 where 65% of the american people believe this country is on the wrong track. they have serious issues with hillary clinton. and they're looking at this guy, donald trump, and saying, do i see him as my president? a lot of americ

my first experience with roger ailes was back in 1988, the tank ad with michael dukakis the tank ad,e horton ad, he knows what he's doing when it becomes to framing debates. can he be helpful to donald trump? yes. can he also be hurtful to trump? could be. >> he also supplied the line to ronald reagan which decimated mondale, the youth and experience. >> we'll be right back. what if a company that didn't make cars made plastics that make them lighter? the lubricants that improved fuel economy. even technology to make engines more efficient. what company does all this? exxonmobil, that's who. we're working on all these things to make cars better and use less fuel. helping you save money and reduce emissions. and you thought we just made the gas. energy lives here. don't bring that mess around here, evan! whoo! don't do it. don't you dare. i don't think so! [ sighs ] it's okay, big fella. we're gonna get through this together. [ baseball bat cracks ] nice rip, robbie. ♪ raaah! when you bundle home and auto insurance through progressive, you get more than just a big discount. i'm gonna

my first campaign michael dukakis the tank ad, the willie horton ad, he knows what he's doing when it to donald trump? yes can he also be hurtful to trump? could be. >> i want to thank everybody on the panel. we'll be right back. remember he, nothing stops us from doing right by our customers. who's with me? i'm in. i'm in. i'm in. i'm in. ♪ ♪ one, two, - wait, wait. wait - where's tina? doing the hand thing? yep! we are all in for our customers. ally. do it right. we are all in for our customers. each day was fueled by thorough preparation for events to come. well somewhere along the way, emily went right on living. but you see, with the help of her raymond james financial advisor, she had planned for every eventuality. ...which meant she continued to have the means to live on... ...even at the ripe old age of 187. life well planned. see what a raymond james advisor can do for you. i love that my shop is part of the morning ritual around here. people rely on that first cup and i wouldn't want to mess with that. but when (my) back pain got bad, i couldn't sleep. i had trouble getting

they were so disappointed of michael dukakis, so disappointed with his defense of liberalism and with george h. of the bush called the l. word. so disappointed by his promise that he was just an to be a pragmatist and he wasn't selling ideology. they were disappointed consecutive a candidate that he got willie horton. they promised themselves they would find a candidate who would fight like the dickens do when they found one in bill clinton who woke up every day and how to advance my program. they also wanted to say how do we, look under the hood, tinker with liberalism and make sure we can update it for the 1990s. >> update it by moving right. >> or moving it to the center but also keeping core ideas. >> what does this tell us by hillary should she become president? will she do the same thing? right now she's moving left as fast as she can but -- thanks to bernie. but does share the same ideology that clinton had or different, do you think? >> it's really hard to know where hillary stands. which hillary is running what is it that hillary who in the clinton white house was considered

>> i think michael dukakis might have been a little relieved.k all of them, to a person, first of all, said they would do it all over again. no matter how badly they lost. walter mondale, 49-state loss, i would do it all over again. how great it was, you know, what kind of a great process it was and what they learned about it. but, mondale told me the story that he asked george mcgovern, you know, how do you get over? and george mcgovern said to him, when i figure it out, i'll let you know. >> but what i'm interested in this and there's no question that the human story is going to be interesting to people whether they're into how deep they're into politics or not. >> right. >> but, what you learned about why it didn't go your way. >> yes. >> is one of the most haunting things in politics, in whom they decide to blame and how much they put on themselves. mccain talking about wanting lieberman. if he had had lieberman in that race, it might have made a difference. >> right. >> but he felt that he had to do the hail mary pass with sarah palin. >> d

michael dukakis. and i talk to them about what it's like to lose in this great public failure.an't think of anything much like it in our life is failing on this kind of a public stage and how they dealt with it and how they came back with it and what it was like going through the campaign and losing. >> -- >> -- by the way is they all like the polls is show them doing well and -- >> right. >> -- at the agony of defeat. up next for us. colin powell unplugged. his e-mail is hacked and true feelings about both hillary clinton and donald trump are truly revealed. what i love most about tempur-pedic mattresses is that they contour to your body. it keeps us comfortable and asleep at night. (vo) soft, firm, or hybrid... our three collections pair up to create the perfect bed for two. there's more than one tempur-pedic. my lineage was the vecchios and zuccolis. through ancestry, through dna i found out that i was only 16% italian. he was 34% eastern european. so i went onto ancestry, soon learned that one of our ancestors we thought was italian was eastern european. this is my ancestor

michael dukakis summed it up, to be blunt about it, losing sucks. >> yes. all kind of say that. i mean, the thing that struck me, one of the reasons i decided to do this i saw the picture of the romneys going to the costco and i can't imagine anymore public failure in american life than losing the presidency. and one day you've got the adulation. you've got the crowds. you've got the staff. you've got the secret service, and the next week -- you're at the costco. and you're alone again. and so it's really a human story as much as anything else. more of a human story than a political story, although each of these candidates who i interviewed remember every single minute of the campaign and how they went wrong, and why they lost. and in reflection, and you know politicians are not usually the most reflective people, but in reflection, they actually talked about their own mistakes, and what they should have done better. john mccain, for example, said to me, you know, one of my problems was that i always second guessed myself. after i didn't perform at a debate

democrat michael dukakis had a great first debate against president george h.w. bush.bacle. >> governor, if kitty dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer? >> no, i don't, bernard, and i think you know i have opposed the death penalty during all of my life. i don't see any evidence that it is a deterrent. >> that ante septic policy response instead of a human one led that he was weak. >> i have a better temperament than she does. >> reinforcing trump's trouble spots like his temperament is what trump sources say they fear their candidate did with repeated moments like this. >> i have a feeling by the end tv evening i will be blamed for everything. >> why not. >> dana bash, cnn new york. >> is a former presidential speech writer for jimmie carter, correspondent. we spoke before the debate. he james joins me again tonight. jim, obviously there were no incumbents on the stage, but secretary clinton had a much more political track record than donald trump. does that make it harder for him to make up ground in the next two

case in point, 1988, when michael dukakis, the governor of massachusetts gave a boiler plate answer to perm question from bernard shaw. >> governor, if kitty dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer? >> no, i wouldn't, bernard. i've opposed the death penalty for my entire life. i don't see any evidence it's a deterrent and there are better and more effective ways to deal with violent crime. >> colleen? that killed him. i'm not completely sure we, but i think i know why. >> he didn't even flimplg. he showed no emotion about the prospect of his wife being raped and murdered and he just focused on the principle. and people -- viewers want to see someone who looks presidential, but they also want to see someone who's an actual person, with feelings. >> that kind of answer worked in massachusetts. that state, it works. >> but it didn't work anyplace else. it was bloodless, right. and look, this is a big opportunity, i think, for hillary clinton, because, she doesn't often show herself. she doesn't show the heart. when you get to see the pe

if michael dukakis were asked this question -- >> if kitty dukakis we raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer? >> reporter: his answer -- >> no, i don't. >> reporter: didn't connect emotionally. al gore tried to hard to fight the test. with george w. bush -- >> a record of appointing judges in the state of texas. that's what a governor gets to do. >> reporter: sighing. and rolling his eyes so much it became a meme. >> ancient rome came to life in "gladiator" with russell crowe. you have to make your case on the issues and you have to be likable, and for the voters, those unexpected moments, they can seal an impression or throw the race wide open for a lot of people watching. >> an awkward moment, one of the jimmy carter debates, the power went off. i think it was in cleveland. they sat their at an half an hour at the podiums and didn't say a word. >> that's really awkward. >> apparently with the nixon and kennedy ba before. >> in the hospital. >> he put on bad makeup. it started to melt under the lights and -- the damage was done. indeed. >> david w

michael dukakis told me that he totally understood why willie horton would be used in the campaign. all of this is in the book. so i understand the argument about the direct line, my sense is if you are looking for philosophical or moral consistency, looking at the american presidency are those who seek it is probably not the first place to look. so you need to look at moments on the totality of the lives where they managed to transcend those shortcomings, that is my view. >> yes sir,. >> you're probably answered the question indirectly, i recently saw the play and statin, bloodied buddy andrew jackson, parody of jackson and i think of our current campaign about on bridled populism and manipulation of that populism. you see any parallels to that? >> with jackson and trump, i have resisted this for a couple of reasons, one is that jackson brought an enormous amount of experience, you can argue whether it was good experience or not but to the presidency had been a judge, senator, general, and so the idea that, fundamentally the choices being presented to us in the next 45 days or so i

ask michael dukakis. are going to hear from matthew in virginia beach who is undecided. want to show you some of the across the country on the debate. go ahead, matthew. good morning c-span and america. i was undecided that i decided last night. not to throw my vote away. i'm going to elect hillary clinton. donald trump doesn't see very well. to the conversation last night and i think america has lost so much. donald trump says he loves the poorly educated. that's because he can get away with non-truths. i feel both parties are corrupt. i don't like either one of them. i think given the choice between the two i prefer electing hillary clinton. to forget that we were thrown into a deficit because of the republicans. because of the banking scandals. because when ronald reagan came into office he took certain things off of people being able to watch the banks. bill clinton was coerced when we had a budget ceiling that needed to be cast -- past. they forget all of that. and money got stolen. obama had to bail america out. he kept the programs going that george bush put when

let's look at michael dukakis in 1988.e death penalty for the killer? >> no, i don't, bernard -- >> they asked about his wife. would you favor the death penalty. what about that moment? >> here's the thing about that question. it sounds like a policy question, but it's not. his campaign manager, dukakis' campaign wasn't about testing his policy. he answered it like a cold set of talking points. that's not a question you want to answer that way. so candidates when they get these questions there's a policy element, but you have to remember folks aren't necessarily just judging you on policy. do they have anything in common with you. if you're a husband, that's not something you'd have much in common with if you answered like he did. >> part of the narrative for george h.w. bush he seemed disconnected from the country at that moment. and that bill clinton was sort of embracing the public. and then george h.w. bush ended up doing this during the debate. remember, he checks his watch as if he doesn't want to be there. that was

. >> now, that line was not enough to elect benson's running mate, michael due cast kiss -- dukakis because the governor himself blew it. governor, if kitty dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrescue cal death penalty for the killer. >> no, i don't. i think you know i've poeps -- opposed the death penalty. >> finally, presidential candidates get their facts wrong in a big debate. they have grot trouble. >> mr. president, i would like to explore our relationship with the russians. our allies in france and italy are now flirting with communism. there is no soviet domination of eastern europe and there never will be under a ford administration. >> that blunder by president ford gave the election to jimmy carter in 1976. back to tonight, the poll is pretty much a dead heat going into the big show. it's kind of shocking because many pundits believe hirveth would easily roll over donald trump. if mr. trump stands his ground tonight, looks presidential, senator clinton could be in major trouble. i was in colorado over the week and polls there say the race is tied. if colorado goe

michael did you cactus. >diddukakis.>> he didn't want ta helmet. he understood that that was wasn't going to be a distinguish television shot. >> consultant steve murphy worked with dukakis>> the answer came back, we've arranged for you to ride in a tank, they won't let you ride in a tank without a helmet because it's unsafe. he relented. he should have stuck with his instincts. >> that moment turned into this commercial. >> now he wants to be our commander in chief. america can't afford that risk. >> do ads like that really work? the consultants think they do. >> three, four, five -- >> they still rave about this ad. it ran only once, but was talked about so much on tv, they say it changed all campaigns. it was the first negative ad to use fear and raw emotion. >> 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. [explosion] >> these are the stakes. we must either love each other or we must die. >> vote or die. pretty relevant. >> but pretty unfair, a smear on goldwater. >> oh, jeez. >> medicare mckinnon worked on the bush campaign which ran this ad showing the candidates consoling 9/11 victims. >> our president took ashley in his arms and just embraced her, and it was at that moment that

michael did you cactus. >diddukakis.>> he didn't want ta helmet. he understood that that was wasn't going to be a distinguish television shot. >> consultant steve murphy worked with dukakis the answer came back, we've arranged for you to ride in a tank, they won't let you ride in a tank without a helmet because it's unsafe. he relented. he should have stuck with his instincts. >> that moment turned into this commercial. >> now he wants to be our commander in chief. america can't afford that risk. >> do ads like that really work? the consultants think they do. >> three, four, five -- >> they still rave about this ad. it ran only once, but was talked about so much on tv, they say it changed all campaigns. it was the first negative ad to use fear and raw emotion. >> 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. [explosion] >> these are the stakes. we must either love each other or we must die. >> vote or die. pretty relevant. >> but pretty unfair, a smear on goldwater. >> oh, jeez. >> medicare mckinnon worked on the bush campaign which ran this ad showing the candidates consoling 9/11 victims. >> our president took ashley in his arms and just embraced her, and it was at that moment that w