joining me now, the attorney for shea moss and ruby freeman, michael gottlieb. of all, congratulations, i'm sure i was that the only one who was screaming excitement when this came down. given everything these women have been through. i just wanted to start by playing one of the moments that really struck me. it was such a reminder, from ruby freeman when she talked of the judgment, just a reminder of the damage that has already been done. let's take a listen to that. >> i want people to understand this. money will never solve all my problems. i can never move back into the house that i called home. i will always have to be careful about where i go in who i choose to share my name with. i miss my home. i miss my neighbors. and i miss my name. >> i mean, listening to that, it's just so important to remember, as you've experienced working with them, their lives have already been irreversibly impacted. so, did friday's judgment bring them some peace and any sense of justice? even with what we just heard ruby say? >> yeah, and they are having beyond, jen. it did. i

michael gottlieb is one of the attorneys representing them. thanks for your time. >> thanks for having me on, rachel. >> what would this new lawsuit do that the first one didn't? >> so, the first suit was a suit for both damages and some other forms of relief like declaratory relief. this is a suit in which we are seeking a permanent injunction to prevent mr. giuliani from saying the same false statements about our clients that he has been making since december of 2020 and which he had a full opportunity to prove to be true if he chose so. he opted out. he defaulted and so after a finding by a jury awarding him damages we don't believe he should be able to continue telling the same lies out on the street that he has been unable to defend and prove in court. >> the massive damages that your clients obtained was not enough to stop him. how would a permanent injunction have more teeth in it than the huge financial penalty he's facing? >> well, it subjects him to the supervision of a federal court. if we are successful in obtaining the injunction

michael gottlieb it's one of the lawyers representing shaye moss and ruby freeman, and he joins me now. michael, wa reading one of losi statements before that jury, where you said you wanted them to sendsage. send it to giuliani, send it to any other powerful figure the platform and an audience who is considering whether they will take the chance to seek profit and fame by assassinating the moral character of ordinary people. what message got sent today? >> i think that is the message that got sent. i think the message that got sent is if you try to do this, there are people that will stand up, there are good, decent people, who will help them. they will fight back, and if those facts are presented to a court of law, a jury is going to act. and it is just a great, great day for accountability and democracy, chris. it's a great day. >> how do -- i got to hear it at length, i shaye moss, your clients speaking afterwards. obviously, it's wrenching to hear about the ordeal they went through. how are they feeling today? >> i think they feel, they feel vindicated. they feel heard. they reall

obviously we saw michael gottlieb, they're lawyer, ask for a specific amount. what does the jury weigh? >> it's not easy, because normally they would weigh something. would have had giuliani coming in with information about his, say, net worth. decide whether to punish him but stonewalled that all the way through. some points he made. they have something to go on. an expert who came forward and said here's what it will cost to sort of compensate them for the misery that giuliani has occasioned and saw their own testimony, but it's fairly loose. maybe giuliani hopes that it will be loose enough it will be revisited on appeal, if it's too high. again, if that's your hope, you're in a very sad situation. they have a little bit to go on in terms of expert testimony, testimony from the plaintiffs and basically nothing from giuliani. they pointed to, all they pointed to, his lawyer in closing statements by the plaintiffs. literally all he could point to. >> interesting to see where they kind of limit. i wanted to -- michael gottlieb is a powerful, had a powerful endi

and what one of the lawyers for ruby freeman and shaye moss, michael gottlieb, what he argued to the jury was that rudy giuliani was a powerful person. he was an attorney for so long. he was so successful. he should have known better than what he had been doing after the election. he should know what defamation is, and he should have known that this was a sustained campaign of lies that would deeply hurt them, that he was using his platform and orchestrating this in a way that was totally unfair and inappropriate for these women. this is one thing that gottlieb said to the jury in his closing argument. he thought they were ordinary and expendable. he didn't see them as human beings. it's dangerous for them to be ruby freeman or shaye moss because of giuliani and his coconspirators. and anderson, i should add those co-conspirators in this case are the trump campaign, trump lawyers and donald trump himself. >> so giuliani chose not to testify today, which is probably the only smart move he's made in several years. but ruby freeman and shaye moss did testify earlier in the trial. can yo

michael gottlieb the lawyer for these two women said to the jury that rudy giuliani thought they wereinary and expendable. he didn't see them as human beings. it's dangerous for them to be ruby freeman or shaye moss because of giuliani and his co-conspirators, people like donald trump and the trump campaign. that is what the jury is sitting with now and rudy giuliani on his side had very little of a case to present so now we just wait for a verdict. sara? >> it is a remarkable case and these two women have gone through hell. the question will be in the end can rudy giuliani actually afford to pay them because he's having major problems with his own finances. katelyn polantz, thank you so much. we will wait for that verdict, i'm sure you will bring it to us when we get it. >> joining us with while we wait for that final stay for the jury is elie honig for more on this. you have long said it was going to be a bad idea for rudy giuliani to testify if he was going to in this. but saying that you're going to testify and then at the last minute change the plan and not, does that also hurt h

plaintiffs attorney michael gottlieb disputed that in his rebuttal argument the. final words jurors heard before receiving instructions from how long try how to render a verdict, the react to julian's words from trump's supporters was foreseeable. it was inevitable. this is to your point earlier, that whether rudy giuliani said he manage or not or he didn't expect the racist reaction whitaker's result, certainly should have known that. >> yeah. he absolutely should have. that was the entire pattern of the trump presidency. these appeals to racism. we were passed dog whistling at this point. when giuliani compared to what they were doing to people who were dealing drugs there was no doubt in anyone's mind what he was saying about these women or what kind of punishment he was trying to calm down upon them. so i think this jury is entitled to draw that inference, that there was reasonable foreseeability and that that amps up the amount of damages that giuliani should be liable here. that will rest, i think, in the sound judgment of this jury, and they have done a lot

. >> michael gottlieb attorney representing ruby freeman and shaye moss thank you for your time tonightis is an important new step. >> we will be right back stay with us. s. i'm orlando and i'm living with hiv. i don't have to worry about daily hiv pills because i switched to every-other-month cabenuva. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. it's two injections from a healthcare provider. now when i have people over, hiv pills aren't on my mind. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients, or if you're taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection-site reactions, fever, and tiredne