had set out to replace the government, if you had discovered some secret document between me and michael govetiations, you would have said this is not about brexit, this is not about a decision of people in this country. this is about a tory plot, or tory power politics and it wasn't. it was about a argument about sovereignty and freedom and belief in britain. it was up to the government, as it is for every european government and always has been with every referendum, to live with the consequences of their actions, that when they called the referendum and have a plan, which i assumed they would. i assumed they would bring forward a white paper for every eventuality and they would have a plan for negotiations and for remain and foot leave. they didn't, so you are quite right. what happened was injune 2016, the then prime minister david cameron evaporated, whistling, and yes, we then had a devil of and yes, we then had a devil of a job because suddenly we owned it, which was what he intended. which we hadn't intended. right? we had a great a problem. i had a vision of what brexit should be lik

. >> well, let's talk to former special adviser to michael gove, charlie rowley and former labour mpndeed minister of state for europe , denis macshane. good for europe, denis macshane. good to see you both. this morning, denis, were being basically sneaked in the back door of the eu, says boris johnson. >> oh, it's wonderful. now if i make a can i make a confession ? make a can i make a confession? steve? the first time in my life i think i broke the law, was to sneak in and see the first james bond doctor. no. when i was under age. and for me, it began and ended with sean connery because he was a great actor. the others were sort of faces, pretty faces, nice voices. he was a real actor, and it was a film that just left me absolutely transformed. >> you should have made sure you should have made sure. denis, it was the last time you broke the law to be fair. >> to be fair, i'd been breaking the law in different countries. i was put in prison in poland for breaking the communist law. at the time i was arrested in south africa. yeah. i'm a i'm a serial law breaker. let's be quite clea

his trust issues, perhaps with bringing dominic cummings into the fray and indeed his frenemy michael goveent, we're also going to analyse what boris johnson said about his relationship with the late queen and his interventions during the mexic saga. don't go anywhere . welcome back to the camilla tominey show. i'm still joined by my panel. i'll reintroduce you matthew laza eve pollard, james price and aubrey allegretti. but let's first remind ourselves of boris's relationship with the late queen. i think you have a bit of a testy relationship with king charles. did you get on with the queen and prince philip a bit better than no, i think i look, i mean, i was certainly fair to say is that i used to see the queen every week, and that was one of the great, great joys of the job, because it was kind of free psychotherapy. >> yeah . and there was no >> yeah. and there was no confession. so appalling that she'd heard it all before . right. >> would you say she had her work cut out with you compared to other prime ministers? i don't know, you'd have to. >> well, i don't know. she she was always

>> who can forget michael gove dancing? >> in fact, that was a wonderful moment, wasn't it? i can remember it well. >> everyone's allowed a night out. everyone's allowed to let their hair down. everyone's allowed to holiday. but this. you have to admit, paul, is a story now about double standards in opposition labour party. >> i honestly don't think it is . >> i honestly don't think it is. and i think once we get into reforming the health service, sorting out the education system, nobody's talking about cops on the streets . that's how cops on the streets. that's how this nobody's this government will be judged on those deeds. >> you can say, paul, and maybe you believe it. you can say, no one cares about this. it's froth . one cares about this. it's froth. it's chip paper. the fact of the matter is, nobody's talking about labour party policy. they're all talking about this scandal. >> still, i'm not saying people don't care about it. and i do understand people's anger about it. but i will just invite people to look at the

and rishi cummings, michael gove and rishi sunak.930. so i cannot be more, yeah, tune in everyone is a lot of fun and that's going to be very interesting. >> yeah. i'll tell you what i find intriguing about this whole thing, considering he was our prime minister and a lot of people, you know, say he should be back. he should be leading this country again, or at least leading a political party again. is he someone then when you talk about the book, people say, well, it's going to be i'm going to read it because it will be entertaining. >> it is such a good book. yeah, but it's got mixed reviews. but i had to speed read it and usually you speed read books under duress. yeah. this was some of it's laugh out loud funny, but then you have to ask yourself, does the book betray a lack of seriousness , which is lack of seriousness, which is what has been his undoing in the first place, is the best thing we can get from a prime minister or a foreign prime minister. >> the fact they're entertaining, rather than it being sort of more factual. >

why on earth you brought michael gove back into the scene after he had knifed you? in 2016? >> it's my general love of humanity. why did you do that? christian forgiveness . and i christian forgiveness. and i thought, look, he's got to be across the detail more than you. i thought. i thought that he was a talent , and i still do. and a talent, and i still do. and i keep friends close and enemies closer. i thought he i think he believes in levelling up, and i think he's very good at it. >> if he hadn't have knifed you in 2016 and you had been prime minister, then again, i'll quote brady , the former chairman of brady, the former chairman of the 2022, because he has this interesting theory that if you had been prime minister, if you had been prime minister, if you had had a reversed order, you had had a reversed order, you had been prime minister to get the brexit deal instead of theresa may. but theresa may had deau theresa may. but theresa may had dealt with covid, that would have been a better sequencing . have been a better sequencing. you would have got a better

so the blob, as you know, in michael gove's speech, is actually rolls down the whole of whitehall.ember, it was, you know, years and years ago we said that the home office is not fit for purpose. >> i mean, just like there is a labour minister very quickly because we're running out of time, this talk about the market, how the government shouldn't be, should, should , shouldn't be, should, should, shouldn't, should be the servant to the market and not the master, etc. does that go down well with the general public? >> well, i think so because because to me it means freedom. the markets dictate economic policy, not politicians in my view. so that means it's the freedom of the democratic constitution of business in this country and not putting red tape on business. so i like that very much. >> yeah, it's tricky though, because of course she's been making headlines about maternity pay making headlines about maternity pay now. also minimum wage people are talking about it. people are talking about it, talking about it. >> andrea leadsom, when she stood against andrea leadsom, stood agai

michael gove's endorsement. after all, he was the one that was endorsing boris.ook what happened there. he eventually turned round to him, stabbed him very neatly in the chest. so if i'm if i'm kemi, the last person i'm if

>> in that vein, why hasn't michael gove supported you? didn't you work for him? 't you his pps once? >> i don't know, you'd have to ask michael. michael, michael is michael is a long standing supporter. why doesn't he? 1513 00:08:17