indeed so back well to discuss that around in bed michael gurr and psychotherapist and best selling author mr gordon it's so good to talk to you thank you very much for taking time great to be with you thanks for having me now our audience is why the international i think to most people around the world saying that men and women boys and girls are creating a different not better not more valuable but simply different in biological and psychological terms this is not controversial at all it is usually considered to be a fact of nature why is it such a polarizing issue in the united states. i think it's primarily because of what we call academic academic feminism is the term that's used and and it's it spreads through i call it the big 3 it spreads from act academe into government into media and the basic feminist concept that all of us with with gray hair bought into you know 50 years ago was the quality but academic feminism has it's take on it it's take it has to have a quality you have to destroy males so males are bad you got to get rid of them in order to have equality and that is not

welcome back to worlds apart because psychotherapist and best selling author michael gurr and mr grig. when we talk about. masculinity especially toxic restaurant i think it would be very that the subject of something it can especially toxic examine and yet i don't want to discuss it in moral terms more interested in what is it in women's and girls' biology and psychology is that me make them unpleasant or even toxic well yeah anyone can be toxic and we always want to establish anyone i think i understand what you're getting at we don't you know because sometimes we popularly say girl drama or girls can be really nasty to each other or women can be can smile at you know someone but really think something very nasty behind their back and undercut and and yeah women do stuff like that all the time i mean everyone that's what's so bizarre about the conversation that we are we don't ever talk about toxics then in any we only talk about toxic masculinity when it would be better actually to i just think not use those terms and just say ok what is what is going on in women so if we look at w