so what does that mean then, michael jacobsen, what is the solution here? >> well, the real solution, and again, i think it's important to recognize just the variability around the country and, you're right, most of those states that are above the average tend to be in the northeast. washington state is the one exception probably on of the west coast. i think our real is to not look at the per prisoner cost. make the per prisoner cost cheaper and there are a couple of reasons why i say that one is to run a good safe constituti constitutional well programmed prison is an expensive proposition. there are 24-hour seven-day-a week facilities. people require every possible need they have include for that population a large degree of physical and mental health needs. on a per prisoner basis, i don't think there's anything wrong with having a high cost. the real issue is on the bottom line. how much do states and taxpayers need to spend on prisons in totality. and we're of the opinion and et cetera not just vera. we over use prison. we have too many people in pris