i'm joined by presidential historians alan li trump's victory, and michael kazin, who's written about the difference between leading with a congressional majority, and then going it alone. nice to see you both. alan, we will start with you. as president obama heads out of the whitehouse, we'll talk about his legacy but really how long before we really know a legacy. >> two things are needed to historians to chew through those records and provide real analysis. >> how does a high favorability rating heading out of office play into that judgment, do you think, michael? >> doesn't matter. vrbata, i don't think. lbj for example was a great success in terms of domestic policy, but horrendous in terms of the vietnam debacle that he was not primarily responsible for but had a lot to do with. historians are still arguing how do you stack up great society programs still exist like medicare and are popular against what happened in vietnam? these questions are debated and it really depends on what you think this president did and whether you still value what they did. >> let's walk through what