joining me from washington is admiral michael mcconnell. until january he served as director of national intelligence. from 1992 to 1996 he was director of the national security agency. also in washington, james lewis, director of the technology and public policy program at the center for strategic and international studies. he headed up a recent bipartisan report on how the nation should secure cyberspace. also with them, david sanger of the "new york times." he has written expensively about cyberwarfare. his new book is called "inheritance." not so new anymore but still worth talking about. i am pleased to have them on this broadcast. michael mcconnell, i start with you, because i talked to buthis, when i asked you what you worried about, this is what you said, at the top of your list, beyond terrorism and nuclear weapons falling into the wrong hands was the issue of cyberwarfare. tell us what the potential danger is. >> charlie, the potential danger is that someone from a remote location overseas could attack u.s. information systems, an

- we're getting away from facts and need a really good first amendment lawyer and they hired michael mcconnell, who is now -- who then went on later on, went onto be a distinguished federal judge, but he was a tremendous first amendment expert. and so we had two groups of farmers, one sticking with thomas campaign and the other one going with the new lawyer, they both filed briefs in the case and the supreme court didn't know what to do. we have two lawyers, you know, and only half-hour for them to argue. so, the clerk of the court actually flipped a coin to resolve this unresolvable fight between the -- these two lawyers and thomas campaign won. so, he argued the case, and, almost from the outset you could see the first amendment issue of forced speech, was of no interest to him, he wanted to relitigate the program about fruit. and he was -- started to argue about stipulation 43 and exhibit 297, as if he was back in the trial court and there is one clip we have, of how unsuccessful that gambit was. the first -- for the first clip. >> what is the problem inaudibl knuble -- [inaudible]. that gr

michael steele has been dogged about it. mitch mcconnell. they have alternatives together, and they really have been fighting on this. meanwhile, the democrats are a house divided and a senate divided among themselves. sean: her numbers are a lot higher than others. the american people are so jaded by with politicians that they see an act of political courage, she steps down for the good of the people of alaska, and every prediction in the media was that this was a bad deal. every poll showed that most people thought -- she did not lose any support within the republican ranks. >> decisions have ramifications. kurt decision to step down, i do not like the fact that she ran away from something, but that is her decision -- her decision to step down. sean: her argument was that they are giving your one ethics issue after another. i cannot get anything done -- giving her one ethics issue after another. >> everybody needs four things in their life. something to do, someone to love, something to hope for, and something to believe and, and she belie

mcconnell did not want him to run, didn't think he could win. that calculation might have been right but they definitely pushed bunning out. >> i'm with bunning on this one. michael, i'll never forget his heroics for the phillies. what a great pitcher. hall of famer. what happened here? >> well, mcconnell spent $20 million in the '08 cycle and senator bunning only has $595,000 on hand. whether they shut him down or he shut down himself it's not the age. some people are saying he's 77 years old and he's too old. it's the money. he just doesn't have the scratch. he should have raised it himself. >> i'm talking about this. he seems perfectly fine to me whatever age he is. thank you, michael and jeanne. join us at 5:00 and 7:00 eastern for more "hardball." "countdown" with keith olbermann starts right now. >>> which of these stories will you be talking about tomorrow? former governor sarah palin says good-bye to public office. >> i will be able to fight even harder for you. >> by fight for you she of course means continue her personal battle with the media. >> so how about in honor of the american soldier you quit making things up? >> is she forgetting that check kei

senator mitch mcconnell suggests canadians let people die if they're too old for certain procedures. is that true? what is the truth about canada's health care? good and bad. >>> michael vick is out. will he be allowed back in? who are you pulling for to return to the nfl? vick or brett favre? it's all part of your national conversation for monday, july conversation for monday, july 20th, 2009. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >>> hello, i'm rick sanchez with the next generation of news. this is a conversation, it is not a speech. it is your turn to get involved. beginning now, president obama's involvement in health care is about to go full tilt. as are some republican efforts to try and stop him going full tilt. senator jim demint of south carolina, for example, said during a conference call quote, if we're able to stop obama on this, it will be his waterloo. it will break him, said the senator from south carolina. president obama, by the way, responded just a little while ago to senator demint's comments. here it is. >> just the other day, one republican senator said, and i'm quoting him now, if we're able to stop obama on this, it will be his waterloo. it wil

michael on the democrats' line. otic come i was listening to "meet the press" yesterday and senator mcconnell said that people didn't have insurance could access it thru going to the emergency room. and i would think, you know, don't we need a better place to go then the emergency room to act as health care? i think that was a very expensive way for americans who don't have insurance to access the health care system. and if the government could come up with some kind of plan for people who don't have insurance and who don't have money to go to doctors could go to -- we could save all kinds of money. guest: i agree entirely. of the goal has to be to keep people out of emergency rooms because it is expensive, and if they don't have insurance, we all pay for it because of the bill to into the tax dollars of premiums would pay for our own insurance, that is why -- why we need fundamental reform that focuses on improving the health outcomes of the american people. i know all governors are dedicated to that goal, and i think we could really make a difference. host: gov. jim douglas of vermont, joining us from biloxi, miss

michael savidge, glenn beck. these are the people we know best in the republican party, given the vacuum at top and given that the people who are the natural leaders, say mitch mcconnell and some others, they're not necessarily tv or radio ready. >> the last one for the troop it's, ms. palin likes to say. she does have a following. could she come back into the fold in time for 2012? >> well, i don't know about yours, richard, the people who love sarah palin and find her charismatic and she does have that "if" thing, they are passionate about sarah palin. there may not be enough of them. we opened with that poll. there aren't enough of them, perhaps, to drag her across the finish line, but she is going to be a formidable presence, because the people, there's nobody else in the republican party that stirs passions right now. she's the only one, and she's likely now to do it, to stir those passions even more. >> and briefly, for those palin backers out there, should they be worried by those poll numbers? >> well, you know, the ones i hear from, the more she has detractors and the less well she's doing among the mainstream republicans, the better they like her. so in a se