michael, thank you as always for being here with us on the show. and here to react now further, chuck rosenberg, a former u.s. attorney, former senior fbi official, currently an msnbc contributor. and we welcome back mika oyang, attorney and former staffer for the house intelligence and armed services committee. good evening and welcome to you both. chuck, if you watch too many movies or legal shows on tv, you go around using phrases like, witness tampering. is there anything legally wrong, if this story in the new york times proves true, if the president had at least these two encounters with people, and say, hey, what did the special counsel ask you about, what did you tell those guys? >> you probably dislike when it lawyers say, maybe. but maybe. and here's why, it's a maybe. the first thing that prosecutors do, and i was prosecutor for a long time, is ask witnesses, who else did you talk to? the first thing defense attorneys do, at least good ones, they tell their clients, don't talk to anyone else. at the very least there's an appearance of impropriety. more than that, the witness tamperin