joining me now is michael saltzman from behind the curtain, a former research for berman and company,nd david serotta, contributor to salon.com. michael, it's all in the game, as omar and the wire would say. you guys got a lobbying operation in washington, d.c., you got clients. they don't want the minimum wage to be raised, because they don't want to pay the workers more money. this is the way washington works. why pretend there's some independent institute that's churning out position papers. why not be clear about what you guys are up to? >> we're not pretending anything. the employment policies institute has been around for 20 years. we are a 5013c nonprofit. >> anyone can do that. >> economists from the university of chicago. here's the thing. the only reason this is a story -- >> how many economists do you have on staff? >> the only reason this is a story -- >> how many economists do you have on staff? >> the only reason this is a story -- >> how many economists do you have on staff? >> -- they don't like our viewpoint. >> how many economists do you have on staff? >> i'm the res