michael schmidt, thank you for your time. we will be right back. schmidt, r your time.will be right back. (man) these men of means with their silver spoons. what will become of them when they discover robinhood gold allows others to earn their very liberal rates on idle cash. they would descend into chaos. >>> that is our show for tonight. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. >>> people panic, where they

investigative reporter michael schmidt spoke to john kelly for this report and joins me now. michael, tell me about your conversation with the former president's former chief of staff? >> i think what is most significant here is that you can hear it in kelly's own voice. you can hear it directly from kelly and i think a lot has been written about kelly over the years. about different things that he may have witnessed that trump said or did, but what is different here is that you can actually hear kelly say it and to me that was something really important and something we pushed hard for, because we thought people should hear from him himself. that he should be, you know, that we needed to go further than just relaying anecdotes and such and that you know, we pushed kelly as hard as we could to answer some of these questions. >> i want to read another quote from kelly. it says he certainly prefers the dictator approach to government. mr. trump never accepted the fact he was not the most powerful man in the world and by power i mean an ability to do anything he wanted, anytime h

and "new york times" investigative reporter michael schmidt is with us. >> willie, a lot to talk abouts morning. of course last night's rally in detroit, it's hard to find somebody that fits the moment as far as politically and demographically more than eminem regarding showing up at a rally. he and barack obama at that michigan rally, really something to behold. we're getting dark news, dismal news from donald trump's longest-serving chief of staff, general who committed his life to protecting and defending americans, depending our shores and defending the constitution of the united states. >> yeah. general who served the country, who lost a son to war, a general who served as chief of staff to donald trump for a couple of years during that first term and who now is so deeply concerned that we're going to talk to michael schmidt has gone on the record for several interviews talking about his concerns about donald trump's obsession with autocrats w fascism and mika read in our open, saying donald trump's praise for hitler, it's one of those moments where we just have to stop and consid

michael schmidt is here. msnbc national security contributor, gabriel, national correspondent for new york magazine, and michael steele, former chairman. republican national committee, former lieutenant governor of maryland, and current co-host of msnbc's "the weekend." this is your extraordinary reporting, extraordinary series of interviews with john kelly. what was your reaction to hearing donald trump's chief of staff say all of what we just heard and more? how do you feel? >> i don't know what my reaction really was to it. i think that it was our job to try to find a new way to tell this story. i think a lot of the stories about kelly have been out there and they've been written about. and they've gotten a lot of attention in the current press. i thought that the story would reach people differently if they could hear it. and i think that in the midst of any story, when you're trying to find different ways to communicate it to people and to illuminate things and explain them, we have, because of modern tec

reporter michael schmidt at "the new york times" has now publishedne audio of trump's former chief of staff, john kelly, telling schmidt in his own wordsn what he thinks of h old boss. and the bottom line here is that kelly thinks trump is a fascist. >> do you think he's a fascist? >> well, looking at the definition of fascism, it's a far-right authoritarian, ultra-nationalist, political ideology and movement characterized by a dictatorial leader centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy. so certainly in my experience, those are the kinds of things that he thinks would work better in terms of running america. certainly the former president is in the far-right area. he's certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators. he has said that. so he certainly falls into the generalto definition of fascist for sure. >> just to be 100% clear, this is trump's former chief of staff reading the wikipedia definition of fascism and then saying, yep, yep, that sounds like trump. if this feels like deja vu, you are not craz

. >> reporter michael schmidt at the new york times has no published audio of trump's former chief of staff, john kelly, telling schmidt in his own words what he thinks of his old boss. the bottom line here is that kelly things trump is a fascist. >> do you think he is a fascist? >> well, looking at the deposition of fascism, it is a far right authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized photography, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, police and natural social hierarchy. so, certainly, in my experience, those are the kinds of things that he thinks would work better in terms of running america. certainly, the former president was in the four-right area. he is certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators. he has said that. so, he certainly falls into the general definition just two weeks ago, bob woodward reported in his new book that trumps former chief of staff mark millie said trump is fascist to the core. days later, woodward told the bowl work that trumps secretary of defense james ma

in taped conversations with investigative reporter michael schmidt, kelly goes on the record and said the former president meet the definition of a fascist and would rule like a dictator if he wins another term. >> certainly the former president is in the far-right area. he's certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators. he has said that. so he certainly falls into the general definition of -- of fascist for sure. >> if he was left to his own devices, would he be a dictator, and fedidn't have people around him? >> oh, i think he'd love to be. >> if he was left to his own devices would he be a dictator, if he had people around him? >> i think he's love to me. i think he'd love to be just like he was in business. if he could tell people to do things, they would do it. and not really bother too much about what the legalities are and what not. >> kelly, a retired general, held the position of chief of staff longer than anyone in the trump administration. he called the former president's recent comments about possibly using the military on american citizens disturbing, addi

not michael schmidt. and not jeffrey goldberg. but it's donald trump who has said that nancy pelosi is more of an enemy to america than she, then put in, and all of the other communist leaders and dictators that want to destroy america. willie, that is the october surprise. that's donald trump's biggest problem right now. >> in october surprise that is not at all surprising from donald trump. because it's the kind of rhetoric we have been hearing consistently. but you are right that he has dug in much deeper on it, and given repeated opportunities to say, no, i was speaking off of the cuff or didn't mean that. he's making it very clear that that is what he believes. that the military may be used and may be deployed against people he views as enemies of the country, people like adam schiff and nancy pelosi, that you are talking about. and these comments, put together with what we heard from general kelly, who is a decorated four-star general, father for vice president hers. talk with them about a town hall last night, trying to mak

michael schmidt and brendan buck. michael, i'm going to start with you.t compelled general kelly to go on the record right now with his voice, too? >> i think that for kelly, the biggest issue was trump he's statements about using the military domestically. if you are a career uniform military officer like kelly, you really appreciate the fact that the united states military is not supposed to be used domestically. you have studied history. you have gone all the way back to george washington to understand why george washington thought that the u.s. military should not be used against american citizens. that is sort of a sacred line of sorts in the way that you view the world. when trump was saying that so openly, in a way about what he was going to do when he came back to office, i think that kelly made a deal with limbself that he would speak out if trump said something wildly inaccurate that related to him or was just so potentially damaging to the country that he felt a need to correct it. because of that, i believe that kelly thought that someone need

not michael schmidt. not jeffrey goldberg. but it is donald trump who said that nancy pelosi is more an enemy to america than kim jong-un, than xi, than putin, and all the other communist leaders and dictators that want to destroy america. willie, that's the october surprise. that's donald trump's biggest problem right now. >> an october surprise that is not at all surprising from donald trump. it's the kind of rhetoric we've been hearing consistently. but you're right, he's dug in much deeper on it. and given repeated opportunities to say, no, i was speaking off the cuff or didn't mean that, he's making very clear that's what he believes. that the military may be used and may be deployed against people he views as enemies of the country, people like adam schiff and nancy pelosi that you're talking about. these comments put together with what we heard from general kelly, a decorated four star general, are fodder for vice president harris. she talked about them in a town hall with cnn last night, trying to make sure the choice

agreeing to a recorder interview with "the new york times" and michael schmidt. >> and i think this issue of using the military on -- to go after american citizens is one of those things i think is a very, very bad thing. even to say it for political purposes to get elected, i think it's a very, very bad thing, let alone actually doing it. certainly the former president is in the far-right area. he's certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators. he has said that. so he certainly falls into the general definition of fascist for sure. he commented more than once that, you know, hitler did some good things, too. and of course if you know history, again, i think he's lacking in that, but if you know what hitler was all about, you'd be pretty hard to make an argument that he did anything good. >> if he was left to his own devices would he be a dictator, if he didn't have people around him? >> i think he'd love to be. i think he'd love to be just like he was in business. he could tell people to do things and they would do it. and not really bother too much about whether what the

kelly asa spoke to michael schmidt of the new york times saying the hitler praised was not a onetime thing. >> ecotourism border once it you know, hitler did some good things too no one might consider praising hitler politically indefensible, but that did not stop a host on fox this morning from trying coming from the business world. >> the first one we've ever had, it's not even a public company. and then he's obviously as frustration and i could absolutely see him go now, it'd be great to have german generals and actually do what we asked him to do knowing that to maybe not fully fully being cognizant of the third rail of german generals we're nazis and whatever the statement given by trump's chairman of the joint chiefs of staff general mark milley, that trump is quote, fascist to the core kelly and response. read the dictionary definition, far-right, authoritarian, unilateralist, ultra-nationalis ts rather political ideology and movement characterized by a dictatorial leader centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in an ultimate belief in a n

and michael schmidt is here. the new york times investigative reporter and gabriel benetenedetti of the weekend. mr. schmidt, this is your extraordinary reporting, extraordinary series of interviews with john kelly. what was your reaction to hearing donald trump's chief of staff say all of what we just heard and more? how did you feel? >> i don't know if my reaction was really to it. i think it was our job to found a new way to tell the story. and a lot of stories about kelly have been out there and written about, and they got a lot of attention in the press. but i thought the story would reach people differently if they could hear it. and i think in the midst of any story when you're trying to find different ways to communicate it to people and to, you know, illuminate things and explain them. because of modern technology and such different tools to do that, and different ways to write stories and tell stories. and i thought in this case, it was really important to get kelly to answer the questions in a way that

michael schmidt, it is important reporting but especially in this moment in time, when he can't hideire for retribution in interviews, public interviews and legacy media. uncle schmidt, "the new york times", thank you for your time and reporting, sir. we will be right back. only purple's gel flex grid passes the raw egg test. no other mattress cradles your body and simultaneously supports your spine. memory foam doesn't come close. get your best sleep guaranteed. buy more, save more. up to $600 off. visit purple.com or a store near you. (man) these men of means with their silver spoons. what will become of them when they discover robinhood gold allows others to earn their very liberal rates on idle cash. they would descend into chaos. gives you three benefits in one toothpaste. healthy enamel. healthy gums and white teeth. this is my number one hack for healthier and brighter teeth and gums. best toothpaste, ever. find lumineux toothpaste at a walmart and target. ♪ ♪ with so much great entertainment out there... wouldn't it be easier if you could find what you want, all in one place?

agreeing to a recorder interview with "the new york times" and michael schmidt. >> and

during this interview with michael schmidt of the "new york times," kelly delivered a stunning rebukehis former boss's character. >> certainly the former president is in the far-right area, he's certainly an authoritarian. admires people who are dictators. he has said that. so he certainly falls into the general definition of fascist, for sure. >> he commented more than once that, you know, that hitler did some good things too. and of course, if you know history -- again, i think he's lacking in that -- but if you know what hitler was all about, you'd be pretty hard to make an argument that he did anything good. >> if he was left to his own devices would he be a dictator, if he didn't have people around him? >> i think he'd love to be -- i think he'd love to be just like he was in business. he could tell people to do things and they would do it. and not really bother too much about whether -- what the legalities were and whatnot. >> that was donald trump's former homeland security director and chief of staff. so what compelled a conservative military man, who praised some of trump's p

public interviews and legacy media, michael schmidt, new york times, thank you for your time. >>> wes the other. new sensodyne clinical white, it provides 2 shades whiter teeth as well as providing 24/7 sensitivity protection. patients are going to love to see sensodyne on the shelf. (music playing) one in five children worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food, no family dinners, no special treats, not enough energy to play. all around the world, hunger is affecting children's physical and mental health. toddlers are suffering from acute malnutrition, which stunts their growth. kids are forced to drop out of school so they can help support their families. conflict, inflation and climate have ignited the worst famine in our lifetime, and we are fed up! fed up that hunger devours dreams. fed up, that hunger destroys joy. fed up with the fact that hunger eats childhood. help us feed the futures of children all over the world by visiting givetosave.org. for as little as $10 a month, you can join save the children as we support children and families in desperate need of

this was all last night in the aftermath of this conversation that john kelly had with michael schmidt at "the new york times." and i think it's important to note because donald trump is not trying to present himself as a uniter for the united states. instead, he is using this and his own unique authoritative leadership, right, talking about how he would solve immigration. he said, you don't need a bill. you need a president. he is suggesting america needs a dictator for a day. donald trump is not necessarily running away from the characterizations that are being described by the likes of john kelly about him. instead, he is going on the attack against leaders like him and james mattis and mark milley to suggest that it's because of them that the united states finds itself, in his words, a weak position. take a listen to him in front of thousands last night in north carolina at a rally. >> i think what happened is when putin saw how weak we were, how pathetic we were, with the stupid milley and these generals that aren't even generals as far as i was concerned -- what a stupid group of

are digging through these comments from john kelly, not just to jeffrey goldberg, but also to michael schmidt of the new york times. we're going to speak to maggie haberman of the new york times and trump's former national security advisor about sir john bolton. ahead after a quick break you want answers as astute political analysis of all cars so questions about to feel so stupid pressing questions. what did biden do that set the right call, stayed awake, hard hitting questions. why did trump? loud of 60 minutes. i love pulling out down, right? >> great questions. >> what are the predictions for next week's top stories? baby oil files for bankruptcy, news network. have i got news for you next saturday at nine on cnn and streaming? beyond max. what did you discuss with the holy father in that fire meeting? >> see the most astonishing performances of the year in hands down the best picture of the year, your should be careful as should pretend this conversation never took place, but it has taken place. >> conclave rated pg only in theaters this friday losing weight and keeping same discover the

are digging through these comments from john kelly, not just to jeffrey goldberg, but also to michael schmidt of the new york times. we're going to speak to maggie haberman of the new york times and trump's former national security advisor, ambassador john i'm bolton ahead after a quick break decorated have ran have blue that's a really tough call for you. >> that's john king from cnn. >> let's look at the data your county leaned read i 15 points in the last presidential election however looking at the latest polling, you're going to need a loss for those purple sprinkles how this guy really knows his stuff $5 a cupcake, you know, the average cost of a cupcake around here $3. >> no comment. millions of people have lost faith with noon, likely bossier, who found the perfect companion to his glp-1 journey, been able to track the progress we open the ad, they're definitely teaching me new habits, so i do not have to be on weight loss medicine get 1000m glp-1 now available at noon.com tail. >> what's simply saved gotten than i don't 24/7 monitoring that acts on an alarm in five seconds to help st

twin stories, one in the atlantic and then of course, kelly going on the record in audio with michael schmidt of the new york times that we compiled a few reactions from republicans asked about this. let's watch that going to say extreme things. >> i have all the respect in the world for john kelly. half the country doesn't think they're voting for a fascist. >> i'm not agreeing that trump is praising adolf hitler, because all you have are the comments from general kelly again, who did not mix with president trump, who did not get along with president trump. >> and then he obviously has frustration. and i could absolutely see him go. now, you know what? it would be great to have german generals that actually do what we asked him to do, knowing that to maybe not fully, fully being cognizant of the third rail of german generals were nazis or whatever that last clip of course, a media host, but that did raise some eyebrows. >> what do you make of how republicans have responded to this? i think this is part of what kamala harris's argument is, is that the republican party is really firmly behind

senior political columnist for politico, jonathan martin, new york times investigative reporter michael schmidt the harris campaign likely wants to use that. >> well, they obviously want to use it with people who are in the political center. people who are living and a handful of battleground states and, frankly, probably white folks who are springsteen fans, springsteen devoted he's, who are going to be persuaded by his rhetoric. also, i think importantly, a politically people picked are called low information voters, the kind of people not engage in the selection and are not really tuned in at all except for some big concept we had an election and you get a celebrity like that making an impassioned case like springsteen did and maybe you can reach a few folks who were largely checked out from politics are never even checked into politics in the first place? >> look at taylor swift, pennsylvania native, and many people mocking that until you find out that 500,000 or 600,000 people registered to vote and will most likely come at her urging, a good number, could possibly go out and vote. there i

column on wednesday, and i wrote it because, in the morning, i was listening to the audio of michael schmidt'sngest serving chief of staff, his closest aide in the white house, telling us how trump was a literal fascist. textbook definition of fascist. how he admired hitler. how he wanted to be a dictator. this is the guy who worked for him for a year and a half and is telling us, without being partisan about it, you know, it's flashing red lights and blazing sirens about voting for donald trump again and giving him that power again. then, that night, vice president harris does a town hall on cnn, and for good reason in my opinion, she answers a lot of questions with that kind of criticism of donald trump. he is a fascist. you can't vote for this guy. we have a choice here. we need to make the right choice. afterwards, and the next day, i hear and i read all this about, well, did she close the deal? was she specific enough here or there? this is an existential question, people. it's just not the same thing. they're not being covered in the same way remotely. i think not being covered in a fair

the fact that he goes to the atlantic and to michael schmidt of the new york times and talks about all this stuff it's high school gossip to pam. it's high school gossip. >> yes, high school gossip is is the better analogy for them first, on the negativity, the the the strategists know that there is a there's a cost to going negative. right. that's why they waited so long to do it. they didn't do this for the first three months of this campaign or two and a half months, because there is a cost that comes voters they they do recoil when they get these ads that are very negative. but at this moment, the harris campaign also knows that these voters are in large part discounting what trump was like as president. all the things that they don't like about his personality, which we heard some of them talk about and they need to put that in front of mine. so that's that's going to be the trade off that they're going to do all the way until november. i don't think the negativity is going to go away because it's too important to the strategy of bringing trump's, um bringing up trump's negatives

which he doesn't deny some years ago, but i do want to play some of this recording between michael smith schmidt, and john kelly. >> listen sit he did some good things to end. >> of course if you know, history again, i think he's lacking in that. >> but if you know what his, you know, hitler was all about viewed be pretty hard to make an argument that he did anything good you, worked for donald trump during the trump administration. do you have any idea what trump could be praising about adolf hitler well, i'm not agreeing that trump is praising adolf hitler because all you have are the comments from general kelly again, who did not mix with president trump, who did not get along with president trump. >> news been consistently on the record against president trump. i'll say this. i did serve with president trump is us ambassador to japan. we have more us military station there in japan. than any place else in the world overseas president trump came to visit me three times. we always met with our military there and i never saw anything but the utmost host respect both president trump's respect fo

. >>> michael schmidt, what are you working on? >> the mets.work on the mets if you'd like to. >> we've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to explain to the public this threat about trump and wanting to do, you know, prosecutions. we have gotten primary documents, secret white house documents about memos that were written to trump. we put those out. we tried to, numbers wise, show the amount of people he wanted prosecuted. just yesterday, my colleagues at "the times" released a graphic that explains how he could weaponize the government and what that would look like, and how installing loyalists at the top of the fbi would change that. how installing loyalists at the top of the justice department would change that. and change that again on simple investigative -- >> when you say loyalists, that's different. every person has a right to appoint people where they want people that are not going to be doing their predecessor's bidding. here, though, we're talking about rubber stamps. basically said -- >> it's an important point. >> -- we'r