. >> i want to bring in my guest, michael shoyer, cia osama bin laden unit. mike, you were the author -- let me get this title here" why the west is losing the war on terrorism" in a matter of five months, you have bin laden killed. are we still losing? >> no, we are still losing, ma'am. awalk key is very important, a technical and english speaking countries in america, canada, britain and straj teej jik victory. in 1996 when lybin laden declar war on us. support for the saudis, israel, and their presence and the afghan and iraq wars, not what our presidents tell us about hating women in the workplace and elections and liberties. and so it's important to kill these people. i have no doubt about that. and the silly argument that it's illegal is just fascinating. >> i want to ask you about that in just a second. but on the minds of the americans is, how are we sure they got him? will we ever know definitively? >> well, usually al qaeda, if they lose the senior leader, they never try to hide it. and if they don't make a formal announcement and issue a eulogy, ge