also joining the conversation is michael zelden.loria, i understand you just got something from ty cobb? >> and ty cobb basically said to us what he said to maggie and the "times", that he's not commenting on this out of respect for the special counsel. one comment i'd want to make here is that ty cobb and the new lawyers, john dowd, et cetera, were not on board at the time that this occurred. this was the other team, this was marc kasowitz, et cetera, the president's new york lawyers, and they are in the donald trump school of being blinl rant. and i think this was trump being trump. and when dowd came on and jay sekulow came on and ty cobb came on they implored the president and said back off the attacking of muller. we are going to cooperate with muller. you have nothing to hide. we are going to, you know, basically show that we are going to be completely transparent and cooperate and you saw the president kind of back down a little. he hasn't been tweeting about mueller since, since last july. and so it's been a real change of s

joining me, michael zelden, who used to be robert mueller's special assistant. cnn political director david chalian, james galliano and juliet kyam. david, let's rewind for a second back to the white house and the brief wing where essentially yo had sarah sanders saying we had nothing to do with this move, this decision here at the fbi. we weren't directly pulling any levers. at the same time, it's like, hello, have you read your president's -- your boss's twitter feed? >> she said the president was not involved in the decision-making at all today. but you're exactly right, brooke. while today it may be a surprise that andrew mccabe left today, i don't think there's any surprise for anybody that this administration had no desire for andrew mccabe to be working within it and andrew mccabe had made clear he was going to leave because he was not going to stay on. so i don't think that part was terribly surprising. it will be interesting to find out what triggered this moment today that nobody expected on friday would be happening today. that will be important for u

julian, david and michael zelden is a cnn legal analyst and robert mueller's former special assistant at the department of justice. michael, you first. the president and his staff say consideration of firing robert mueller was not an issue. would this add to any mountain of evidence as it pertains to obstruction? >> well, perhaps it's one more brick in the wall or pile in the mosaic. more to me it's a reflection of the president's state of mind. and that's very relevant to a prosecutor who is trying to determine whether or not the president acted with the corrupt intent to influence the investigation or whether he was just, you know, defending himself as he has a constitutional right to. for me, it's more this window into his thinking that helps mueller make that determination of intent than it is in and of itself an obstructionist act. >> so, michael, intent and even the reported attempt, you know, to ask, you know, don mcgahn to back him on the whole firing, i mean, overall, what does this say to you about whether it's undermining james comey in that firing or whether it's trying to

to be fair, we had michael zelden disagreeing with what you just heard depending on the context which we don't know. there is a scenario where it's totally okay for mcgann to go to jeff sessions and say you really want to refuse yourself? >> the fact that he did it is why he is where he is. the loyalty trump had with don mcgann dates back several years where he played a vital role in getting trump on the ballot in certain states and fending off challenges at the convention. he's one of those few people that had the rotating cast of characters. mcgann is one of those because it could be dubious of carrying through president trump's orders. >> the question is what if anything was the mechanism by which trump wanted mcgann to compel sessions? we don't have any knowledge of that and as far as the times went, that indicated there was a conversation and i don't think there is anything wrong about a conversation happening. since sessions responded to mcgann by saying i talked to my attorney and they think i should recuse myself. he went and did just that. >> mcgann walked away. >> he said i

and now michael zelden former ethics lawyer for george bush and john after lan is back with me.dam schiff ranking house and intelligence committee was supposed to join us but now unable because apparently steve bannon is starting to talk and ongoing. let's talk about, meeting with steve bannon scheduled to start at 9:30, we saw him arrive 8:30. now nearly 12 hours later and still in that meeting with the house intelligence committee. what does that say to you? >> i hope they fed him. because it's a long day. but what it says is, one, that the first half of it was unproducti unproductive because of what i think probably inappropriate assertion of executive privilege. he forced the hand of the committee to subpoena him, which now allows him, he thinks, to testify about things which he might not have otherwise been able to. all of which i think makes no legal sense. but perhaps it gives him the cover that he wants. now he's answering questions. of course when you are under subpoena, if you refuse to answer questions, you can can be held in contempt. you couldn't otherwise do it. so

let's talk with cnn legal analyst and former special assistant of the justice department michael zeldenplain this to us, shimon says now they have in their back pocket still this subpoena before the grand jury. but why was bannon subpoenaed when he seemed to work out what everyone else did, which was just having an interview with the counsel's team? >> i think that you see in mueller a view of people that he trusts and doesn't trust. so with manafort, for example, we asked, why did they have a no-knock entry into his apartment, why not knock on the door and come in? because he didn't trust manafort. the same thing is probably true with ban. doesn't trust him and wanted to send a message that this is serious stuff. you can't just be talking to attorney for the independent counsel staff and the same way you talk to wolf and fire and fury book. different environment. >> he's said he's invoked executive privilege as we understand when he's talking to house investigators up on capitol hill. he's not going to have that protection when he talks to robert mueller's team. but i do wonder, he has

. >>> up front the special assistant to mueller, michael zelden, let me ask you, the white house reporting going to give to congressional investigators. are they fully cooperating here or not? >> well, it seems that they are cooperating with mueller and not so much with the congressional committees. and they face the same sort of ability to be charged with lying or obstruction of justice for failure to cooperate with the committee. so i don't understand why they would do this dual strategy. but that's what it looks like from the reporting we have had tonight. >> right. as you point out repercussions would be the same. today cory lewandowski former campaign manager for trump, and has bannon tried to do, he also tried to refuse to answer questions. he said he was not prepared. he knew this day was coming. going up against in investigation and says he's not prepared. >> right. i used to try that in the 6th grade but mr. koran would accept that as excuse for not doing my homework. it's n it's not acceptable to have lewandowski saying this is something he's looking forward to. and now coming in