here with me to share the reporting, ellen johnson of politico, michael zelden. he calls it a witch hunt. he says they broke into his attorney's office. you work on special counsel investigations. how high is the bar to go in and say, we want to serve a search warrant on an attorney, an attorney who happens to represent the president of the united states. >> pretty much as high a bar as can be set in the criminal justice system. first of all, they recognize the importance of the attorney-client relationship, so they have a series of rules that govern when that can occur and how that can occur. it's the last step in an investigative process that allows it. so you have to minimize it. that means look for other things first that give you the same evidence. then it has to be signed by the attorney general in the city where it's going to be taking place. then it has to be approved by the fbi. so that whole group has to look at this and say, is this the right thing to do? did an attorney commit a crime and that evidence is in his office? then they have to ask a judge.

joining me now michael zelden, mueller's former special assistant at the justice department and a formerederal prosecutor. good evening to both of you. michael, we were reading copies of comey's memo where he talks about condemning leakers and reporters. and then he says and then explain why it leaks reported to be fbi intelligence operation were also terrible and a serious violation of the law. if people running around telling the press what we do that ability would be compromised. i said i was eager to find leakers and are would like to nail one to the door as a message. i said something about it being difficult, he replied we need to go after the reporters and referred to the fact that 10 or 15 years agewe put them in jail to find out what they know and it worked. he mentioned judith miller by name. i explained i was a fan of pursuing leaks but going after reporters was tricky and that doj tends to approach conservatively. what do you think? >> i think the conversation is terrible for both parties. the notion that you're going to pursue the press for materials that they received from

>> with me here in the studio, julia pace of the associated press, former federal prosecutor michael zelden, cnn's prokupecz. >> i'm asking this as a layman. michael flynn, national security adviser, pled guilty to lying as well. he has not been sentenced. he is cooperating. most people think he essentially got a traffic ticket for robbing a bank, if you will, because he's cooperating. how does van der zwaan get 30 days in jail? what treatment does flynn get if he's already in jail? >> it may mean he gets harsher treatment because he was exposed to greater liability on a full sentence. he could get six months and it be a walk in the park compared to what he could have gotten. but i think it tells us that mueller is serious about his investigation, and particularly serious about lying to his investigators. if you do, there is a consequence, as the court said today. i think it sends a message that mueller wants people to cooperate and be truthful, and i think it tells those who have information to give up to make sure they give it up. as we saw in the van der zwaan case, he waived his right t

. >> joey, let me ask you -- michael zelden who worked with mueller for a period raised an interesting point that preparations are not primarily to prepare the president for a discussion with mueller's team but to expose him to at least acknowledge the potential pitfalls he could experience in an interview and get him on board to say, no, i shouldn't speak with mueller's team. >> i think we as his lawyers do that all the time. you want to testify? sit down, let's talk about it. you launch into questions, and the client is befuddled and say, oh, maybe you're right. there's no wins in sitting down with a prosecutor for the following reason -- i mean, they know, it's like lawyers. don't ask a question that you don't know the answer to already. the special prosecutors have a wealth of information. they've spoken to a number of people, vetted information. they know what the real deal is. when you're talking to them, they already have a sense and understanding of what information is factual and what information is fictional. the fact that the president's people can move him and get him to un

contributor larry noble served as general counsel of the campaign legal center and cnn legal analyst michael zeldenrst of all, either of you disagree with me that that is the piece of sound that will trigger the president >> i think it probably is. >> larry, let me start with you, what do you think of jim comey saying something like that. former director of the fbi saying that kind of event is possible although he doesn't offer any proof why he thinks that? >> i haven't read the book yet but from the parts i have seen in the press, he seems to get into a number of subjective views of things. you know, it's interesting, i think people may like it. i'm not sure really what that proves. so, again, it's his cross light on what's going on, but from a legal standpoint, i'm not sure how much weight that carries. >> well, it's not about what it carries legally, it's about what it's going to mean to the dialogue and how he's perceived. michael, your take? >> frankly, i didn't like that conversation at all. i don't know why it's relevant to anything. the only thing that struck me of interest to it was the qu

john avlon is here, michael zelden who worked with robert mueller at the department of justice. john, it's not about being unfair to the president, it's about being real. you don't say that it's your fault this guy went down when i was saying that you should be worried about the guy. >> in these contemporaneous memos, he's saying flynn has serious judgment issues. trump fired flynn for not only lying to the fbi, which he confessed to, but lying to the vice president about his contacts with russia. so this is a selective retelling of the past and it contradicts the president's own statements. he talks about loyalty a lot, but it does seem to be a one-way street. >> you summed it up quite nice there. so as we look at that, the other thing that really sticks out here, well, a number of things but to your point the back and forth. sometimes the president changes how he feels about things depending on the day, depending on the news of the day, depending on the tweet. that being said, it is consistent in these memos as to what the president is preoccupied with, and a lot of that has t