. >> right now i'm joined by michelle bernard, author of "moving america toward justice lawyers' committee of civil rights" which comes out on wednesday. and president of bernard center for women. rick perlstein contributor to "nation" magazine, and george and roberto lovato, co-founder of presente.org, latino political organization. thanks for joining us. i guess we'll start with this basic dilemma that democrats are facing that spilled into public view this week in the senate where, you know, it's 60 votes -- you need 60 votes to beat a filibuster and to get this bill out of the senate but the lodger chuck schumer is talking about, well f 60 votes get it out of the senate but if you want any chance in the house these days you need 70-plus so overwhelming majority so isolates house republicans, they feel pressured to bring the bill to vote in the house, even if most won't vote for it. george, you're down there, what's you're read on the mood in the senate? how do you rank and file fall on that question? >> the rank and file of not only the senate but in the house are skeptical of this app

michelle bernard, nbc colleague, kristen walker and tracy. michelle, let me start with you.rs scandal looks like it's a bureaucratic scandal. >> it is. >> not the political scandal that republicans were wish they had come up with. >> absolutely. it appears they have really overplayed their hand. it's still a scandal, a problem. this is not what the irs is supposed to be doing. this kind of behavior is absolutely horrific. that being said the republican party was trying to make this into something so absolutely awful. now we find out they were looking at democratic groups as republican. >> i might argue was it horrific or an overwhelmed irs agency on 501 c 4s and they hold -- i think one of the things we haven't talked about is the shadiness of the law and maybe that is the issue. kristen you and i watched this white house frankly stumble out of the gate in their response to this. almost they were so fearing the political impact that they sort of gave it -- their lack of reaction gave it legs. >> that's right. they were slow to react. when they did it was jumbled and confusin

that's why i've got people to help me talk about p tp michelle bernard, president of the bernard center for public policy and reid wilson editor in chief at national journal's hot line. thank you for joining me. >> thank you. >> michelle, i want to start with you. the republicans, i find it fascinating, there is pressure it get latino votes but the tea party is also gearing up. we have seen them making it clear that they are, you know, ready, you know, to go back out there and fight this battle. so this looks more to me like one where the democrats can kind of step back and let the republicans fight it out. >> i think that's exactly what is going to happen. quite frankly, it is just sad to see that we had an immigration bill with a pathway to citizenship come out of the senate. you know, it is being recorded that chuck schumer believes by the end of the year, house republicans will come to their sense and pass an immigration bill. but if they can't pass a farm bill, how are they going to pass an immigration bill and quite frankly, you know, given everything we have seen happen in congre