irvine, and host of the podcast on the issues, with michelle goodwin. she's also a award-winning author of the book, policing the womb. invisible woman and the criminalization of motherhood. michelle, good morning to you. thank you for joining us. i guess i want to talk to you, because i've been talking to abortion providers, doctors. it's fair to say that doctors now have to trade in some states, a very fine line between medical malpractice and adhering to these antiabortion laws. >> these are not real risks that doctors have to interpret, but it puts a chill on the entire system. so some doctors will say, i can't take this risk right now, i don't understand what will happen to me if i do it. >> that is absolutely right. thank you very much for having me on your show. this is a period of a new jim crow. just a period of jim crow, what it was meant to do is instill fear, of course the laws themselves are quite brutal, these laws that determine where people can go, how they can go, what they can do, who they can associate with. so this is not new. this i

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mara gay, michelle goodwin, cecile richards, three of my most favorite humans, thank you so much for today. >>> when we come back, president joe biden fresh off a string of big victories is set to rally democrats tonight ahead of the midterms in a political landscape that looks very different than it did a few weeks ago. white house communications director kate bedingfield will be our against after the break. >>> plus, we are one step closer to getting at least some of that affidavit that justified the fbi's search of mar-a-lago. we'll have the latest developments on a story that has been breaking and advancing all afternoon. >>> and later, one day after a deadly russian attack on a train station in central ukraine, the u.s. is now warning of another sinister plot by moscow. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. stay with us. use" continues after a quick break. stay with us to a child, this is what conflict looks like. children in ukraine are caught in the crossfire of war, forced to flee their homes. a steady stream of refugees has been coming across all day. it's ba

please give now. >>> we are back with michelle goodwin.general merrick garland today announcing that the doj is going to sue idaho over its near total ban on abortions arguing it violates federal law requiring medical providers to offer emergency medical treatment. i wonder how you see this first post-roe litigation going. >> well, it's important litigation because what's difficult to determine is that those states that allow for exceptions if life is at risk, well, how much does one need to suffer? we've already heard cases in the state of wisconsin where a woman bled for more than ten days, where she had an incomplete miscarriage but doctors were really concerned about potential litigation and possible criminal punishment if they did what would be typical medical advice, which is to right away provide her relief. in the state of idaho what we know is there's been a number of case involving individuals who have gone to emergency rooms that have been turned away. again, doctors fear criminal punishment if they do what is standard for medic

professor, and on the issues, podcast, osama show goodwin, is also the officer of policing tulum, invisible women, and the criminalization of motherhood. michelle viable, but, the louisiana woman we just heard from does not fall into either category. what does that tell you about the exceptions that, often, accompany abortion bans? >> the first thing, is these are matters that are up to interpretation. so, it was that the hospital interpreted the law, to not apply to this case, just as you said. a fetus developing without a skull, perhaps, it's another hospital, they might have thought it would have fallen under the exception, but the law is doing exactly as the antiabortion law makers are intending, which is to make people afraid. it is to chill conduct. it is to make hospital staff, doctors, nurses, and others the, management of hospitals, nervous about losing license sure. it is about making people feel as if they will be criminally, or civilly punished, if they help a child bearing person, a pregnant person. >> in the meantime, florida, a six-year-old girl who is pregnant, apparently, is nearing the deadline to receive an abortion before th