michelle women. michelle easton, how to raise a conservative daughter. then at 2 p.m. eastern from the printer's row lit fest in chicago we'll feature interviews with miles harvey on his book the king of confidence, elly fishman and marsha chatelain. watch american history tv and book tv every weekend on cspan 2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or visit c-span.org. >>> next, a look at the potential of wind energy off of u.s. shores and possible climate change. >>> welcome to the bipartisan policy center. we are hosting this event today with a distinguished panel of guests. we're very excited today to talk about the opportunities of the u.s. off shore wind. i'm the managing director for the energy program at bpc. we will dive right in. there is so much interesting stuff happening today. just last night the senate took a very important step towards a bipartisan infrastructure framework that does include a number of provisions that are relevant to the off shore wind industry in this country. i think we're going to talk a lot today just about the opportunities here and where we see the tipping points for the industry. and so let me just dive right in with some introductions. our first guest today is david j.hayes, special assistant to the president for climate policy. he's part of gina mccarthy's white house team. he was at the nyu school of law and previously served under presidents barack obama and bill clinton at the department of interior. we are also joined by bobby jindal who served two terms of governor in arkansas and chair of the republican governor's association. governor jindal served in the bush administration and held numerous advisory and boards from health care, pharmaceutical, manufacturing technology companies. he's currently an operating adviser and serves on the board of hornbeck off shore services. our final guest is bill white. he's with one of the leading providers of clean, renewable power in the u.s. prior to this bill spent the better part of a decade in massachusetts state government developing their off shore wind market including transmission planning, supply chain, work force development efforts as well as the new bedford marine commerce terminal a terminal designed for off shore wind. we'd love to hear more about that. just introductory thoughts from all of you. david, i'll start with you. the u.s. really is poised to make major investments in infrastructure to address climate and energy goals. the biden administration has also set a very ambitious target for employing 30 gigawatts of offshore wind by 2030. only 9 years away. it's obviously no small task. a lot of questions around sectors and stakeholder groups from fishing to electricity grid modernization, marine vessels, ports, transmission. i mean, the list really goes on. can you describe what you're thinking and the biden administration is thinking around how to prioritize these actions and how does this align towards that 30 gigawatt goal? >> thanks, leslie. thanks so much for having me and i'm excited to be joined by bill and governor jindal as well. so this is a huge priority for the biden administration. obviously the president talks about climate as one of the four primary crises that our nation is facing. and where there's crises, there's opportunities. and off shore wind provides an enormous opportunity to help shift our economy to a clean energy economy. the groundwork was laid in the obama administration when we learned from the cape wind experience and needed to find places in the offshore that would be conflicted from obvious serious conflicts, particularly with the fishing industry but also with many other users of the ocean. wind energy areas were set up in the obama administration. the last administration was not keen on wind energy, but we are and we're moving out in a very big way. and your question raises the point, how do we work with all the constituencies involved, with the enormous challenge around creating essentially a whole new industry? and the only way to do it is to have a whole of government approach across the federal government and one that works closely with the states and with local governments, with industry, with the key constituencies including the fishing industry. everyone who uses the oceans, et cetera, and that's what we're -- that's what we're about right now. it's very exciting for a number of reasons. in the northeast the -- many of the states have very ambitious clean energy goals, and the opportunity to have a natural resource right off their coast to provide clean energy through an offshore -- new off shore industry is met from heaven, if you will. the opportunities for the economic growth associated with the literally billions of dollars that will go into the new industry. the new factories that will have to be built in ports that need those jobs and the fact -- and they're going to be good jobs and then the upstream supply chain opportunities for the steel and the other materials needed and the ships needed, we already have a big ship being built in texas by dominion energy that will service this industry using hundreds of tons of american steel. so it's a tremendous opportunity. we're moving out across the agencies. the primary permitting agency is the department of commerce, the bureau of ocean energy management. we are going to -- we are going to be on track for 30 giga watts by 2030 and 80,000 jobs. already there have been 1.7 million acres of off shore acres that have been leased. there are 17 commercial leases in the atlantic already. i can go through more statistics. the first commercial green light has been put for vineyard wind. we've got others in the hopper, plus importantly we're looking at the gulf of mexico also as an opportunity. we're looking at california as an opportunity. in fact, yesterday there was a very important announcement about two big areas that will be coming online for commercial opportunities. and today there's an announcement about north carolina and the first notice of intent for the first major off shore wind project in north carolina. so it's a behive of activity. it's a top priority of the president and gina mccarthy and our climate office here in the white house. >> thanks, david. governor jindal, we just heard a ton of activity happening all across the nation. we're really seeing a number of states that are led by both republican and democratic governors really leaning into this off shore wind opportunity be at this. so what do you think is motivating these kind of first mover states and how do you think about the commercial opportunities that are presented by u.s. off shore wind particularly coming from louisiana that has such substantial expertise in ocean energy infrastructure? >> thank you, leslie. great to join you today. i was thrilled to hear david mention the gulf coast. it's a pleasure to mention david as well. this reminds me of the most recent energy revolution you saw over ten years ago. you saw a large investment in the shale gas fracking revolution and increased supplies. you saw states also compete, develop their shale gas assets. it was interesting, you saw billions of dollars of economic activity not just in traditional states like louisiana and texas. we also saw states like ohio, north dakota and utah add enormous activity. when you had affordable and cleaner activity it unlocked tens of billions of dollars of downstream activity. we saw activity around things like fertilizers, steel plants that use natural gas not only as a power source but as a feed stock. so what you saw was that states originally competed for the direct energy jobs and then were competing for the downstream jobs. i think you're beginning to see the same thing with off shore wind and other renewable energy as well. states are absolutely competing and eager to get the direct energy jobs. they want the fabrication jobs, ship jobs, port investments. they want the installation jobs. off shore renewable energy, it's not just the temporary construction jobs. a lot of these states are also competing for the secondary downstream investment. you think about companies building data centers, huge users of energy. increasingly bsg concerns are concerns for shareholders, investors, customers, workers. customers say we want to locate data intensive units. this will be the tip of the spear. you're going to see other industries want to locate where you have clean, affordable, reliable energy. states are competing for the direct energy jobs and the downstream investment, the secondary investments as well. they want to look where they can get the affordable energy. third and final point is, look, across the country we have an incredible investment in infrastructure when it comes to producing energy. my hope and i know the bpc report mentions investments and incentives to help convert some of the work forces company's assets into the production of renewable administration. i know the clinton -- sorry, i know the biden administration is very interested in that. i know david has talked about that as well. so, for example, we have shipyards, fabrication shops, jones at vessels. you have technical training colleges that have been geared towards the production of conventional energy. i hope we will find ways to convert those industries and work forces into renewable energy. you mentioned at the beginning i sit on the board of the horn beck off shore industries. we operate large vessels in support of the oil and gas industry. those are great assets that can be used to support the wind industry as well. i think it's a great thing to see the states compete for this. it's the way you should have it work in the united states. you have states competing for workers and residents. i think you'll see them compete for the secondary and downstream as well. i think that can be a great win-win across the country. i was thrilled to hear david talk about the gulf coast. i know they released an rfi. as a resident of the gulf coast, i'm very excited to see that. >> thanks so much, governor jindal. we've heard actions on the federal level, state level and businesses. would love to turn to bill for the perspective of your company. you made history on may 10th as the first commercial scale in the u.s. to receive federal approval so congrats on this milestone. thinking back to when your company first started getting these plans in motion, what really do you think drew your company to want to expand into being one of the leading, you know, developers of on shore wind and solar? why the complicated -- in the nature of off shore wind, what drew you there? >> leslie, thank you very much. great to be with you. great to be with the governor and my old friend david hayes from the clinton and obama administrations. also just greetings from boston, by the way. not only home to the first place boston red sox, to all my yankee fan friends out there, just a little shot across the bow, but also home to what we were all excited about the home of the first commercial scale off shore wind project in the country. exciting times. you know, we got into this business, you know, some time ago, maybe kind of, you know, with our joint venture partners, cip. as all things are in life, with some risk involved. no question about it. you know, the industry had its ups and downs in the united states. we've been talking about off shore wind for almost 20 years, thinking about it, talking about it, dreaming about it. and now we're finally, you know, after a heck of a lot of learning, we're finally on the cusp of it. but why off shore wind? why are we so darn excited about it? number one, you know, in thinking about the bipartisan theme today, it is american made energy, right? this is an indigenous resource just off our coast. what makes it quite unique is this resource blows strong. it is a consistent almost base load characteristic of an energy resource. it is an amazing opportunity. i think, you know, the fact that it's jobs. we're talking -- david mentioned 80,000 new jobs over the coming years. i mean, that's significant new industry. it's both blue collar and white collar jobs so that's a huge opportunity. and then, you know, climate change. i think this consensus of climate change, particularly in the united states during these last several months with all of the action on the weather front i think is kind of bringing this need to address climate change into greater and greater focus. so i think for all of those reasons and then maybe a quick final one, and that is cost. we have -- you know, cost has always been probably the most concerning issue. sure we have issues and challenges with a variety of fronts, but i think many folks along the east coast and across the country, we're kind of interested in off shore wind. it was exciting and attractive. geez, it was going to be so darn expensive and can we do it. can low income ratepayers get hammered by it? i think when vineyard wind came forward, you know, i was actually at the state of massachusetts at the time. the projections were is that the cost of off shore wind was going to be about 16 cents a kilowatt hour and when the vineyard wind price came in through a competitive solicitation it was 6.5 cents lcoe when we came out. it shocked the world. it shocked -- i think it was democratic and republican governors along the east coast that basically said, you know what, it makes sense for all of these other reasons and we see it's going to be cost competitive. that was i think the turning point. i think with the president coming in and seeing this opportunity and really kind of giving certainty to it, i think it's exploding. >> that's fantastic. great to hear about that. i do see some questions rolling in from the audience so please do keep them coming. you can submit them or tweet us at #bp#bpclive with the questio. we'll be moving to the q&a section in a couple of minutes. how are you thinking about the transmission backlog and what problems it could create if nothing is done about it? honestly late breaking news from the bipartisan infrastructure deal that was voted on last night, we're seeing a lot of transmission pieces for that. would love to hear your take, you know, on where do you go? how is all of that going to play into this question of transmission? >> first, leslie, the transmission piece is important for clean energy. we're very excited about the bipartisan infrastructure package including new authority to the department of energy for grid deployment. there are provisions that pass through the senate natural resources committee that give you authority for d.o.e. to be involved in more planning and actually having financial stakes important in regional transmission lines and in particular that can unlock more renewable energy and it's been a high priority for the white house to bolster our grid and modernize it. a lot of new money, important money to upgrade it, et cetera. in terms of off shore wind, the -- it's exciting that there is so much new energy that will be coming in from the off shore but it's not going to be easy to integrate that into the grid and so we're going to have to have a lot of work -- good working relationship among the federal family, including with the federal energy regulatory commission and the regional transmission organizations in the northeast and in particular -- and think long term about the potential for a backbone transmission line off shore rather than having individual strings coming in like spaghetti over the years. and then where they come in, of course, there are going to need to be upgrades in terms of the capability of the grid. this is going to be a big project that's going to require all forms of government to work together. we actually have an inner agency working group already here at the federal level reaching out through the department of the interior and the department of energy together to begin talking about what's going to be needed and how the federal government can help work with states which are the traditional leads here in terms of electric infrastructure. so it's -- and we have to think for the long term. we have to recognize that we are going to have an enormous industry by 2030 and how can we put the infrastructure in place now that will enable that growth, that will provide the certainty needed for the industry to make the investment and i think it's the perfect case example for the importance of passing the infrastructure -- bipartisan infrastructure legislation that is going through. it's an area that we've neglected too long in our country. if we're going to transition to clean energy and modernize our energy system and make it more efficient, we have to invest in it. and off shore wind is certainly going to be an area where i'm hoping we can bring everybody together and make smart decisions and smart investments. >> david, i love hearing those themes what you're saying about federal to state coordination and ensuring that those lines of communication, something that we also recognize in our bpc recommendations for off shore wind. and speaking of recommendations, governor jindal, you are actually co-chairing another bpc infrastructure task force that recently talked about recommendations for bigger, bolder thinking. let's move past how we do project-by-project approvals and how do we deliver on these nationally significant and climate critical projects? so it does seem to us at bpc that offshore wind checks both of these boxes, for nationally significant and climate critical. >> thank you, leslie. so a couple of big picture points before i get into the specific recommendations. one, one of the things that unites us. we have very conservative and very liberal members. it is a bipartisan group. one of the things that unites us is the realization whatever your thoughts are of what's going on in dc from moment to moment, we as a country have got to learn to build things more quickly and at lower cost. you compare the cost of completing projects in the united states, even our neighbors up north in canada much less to countries in europe and other can you be tris around the world, it costs too much in the united states and it takes too long. we did develop specific recommendations when it comes to green infrastructure. everybody agrees if we're going to have more renewable energy, we have to make a significant investment and progress in infrastructure. that means power generation, that means power storage and power generation. we also recognize they can be applicable across the board. these are recommendations that also should help streamline what's become a very bureaucratic process. i would encourage folks to go and read the report. there's a lot of detail there. nine recommendations i want to highlight for folks very quickly today though because it is possible to streamline the process without sacrificing environmental protections and without sacrificing local input. this is not an excuse to ignore local stakeholders and unwarranted short cuts through environmental protections. there are ways to stream on the bureaucracy. so first we recommended that we designate a lead agency, a single permit plan and permitting timetable so that the work can happen concurrently instead of consequencely -- instead of consecutively. the reality is for developers, what they tell you is predictability is what they want. what draws up costs and time delays is not knowing and having to deal with multiple bureaucracies. so the simple process of having a single point helps streamline things. moued is under fast 41. that reauthorization is in the bipartisan bill that's being debated in dc as we speak and so secondly continued cooperation through those mous again so that developers and project proponents aren't having to go through multiple levels of bureaucracy but rather can deal with them at one time. third, presumptive time limits. two years for environmental impact statements. fourth, expanding nepa pilots. allow states to assume federal nepa responsibilities. i was a former governor. i strongly advocate this kind of federalism where the federal government is saying, yes, we trust states. you won't have to micromanage or look over their shoulders. fifth, the use of categorical exclusions to have detailed nepa review. we had some discussions earlier with additional discussions for broadening the use of categorical exclusions whether it's for certain projects, greener projects and broadening these exclusions. six, allowing applicants to prepare environmental documents. at least partnering with them so we're not duplicating the expertise. seven, early engagement with the public. that happens at the front end of the public rather than at the middle or end of the project after a lot of money, time, effort has been used. make sure the agencies have the resources they need to properly and quickly process these permits and applications and then finally the use of energy corridors. these were first included in 2005 legislation. they've been used for the citing of pipelines but use of energy corridors for green infrastructure. for example, co2, high voltage and getting around nimby. the report has many other detailed recommendations. i'm not doing justice of the entire report. nine specific things we identified that can help both speed up the approvals of the projects that everybody agrees have to be built on a large scale without a lot of costs while still preserving the ability for local input. it's very important, everybody on the task force agreed we do want community's voices to be heard. this is not about overruling local communities but, rather, giving them an opportunity to have their voices heard. we get to a quick yes or no for project developers and proponents and we'll see. >> thanks, governor. that was a great overview. bill, we'd love to hear from your experience now. this project was the groundbreaker from the federal offshore wind permitting process. can you talk about where you see lessons learned? what kind of forward momentum now will the industry have? >> yeah. well, i think the momentum now is finally significant. i do want to maybe take people back to the beginnings, the origins of really this wind project. i've heard sometimes people call it fast track. this actually started in 2009 when it was actually governor duvall patrick who actually reached out to david's then boss ken salazar and say we'd like to have a task force. we'd like to talk about this off shore wind opportunity. we were learning from our european friends. we convened our federal friends, we brought together the tribes, the fishermen and really the local communities. we brought them to a table, actually in the days when we actually could be around a table and it was a -- it was an enormous table, let me just tell you, the first meetings that we had. this is how this began through a kind of very intensive, engaged stakeholder's process. i'm from the state's side and now i'm obviously the business side of it, but this has been a heck of a long process. it wasn't really until, you know, 2018 when this project actually submitted its permit to the federal government that it really started to accelerate. it was almost a 10-year stakeholder experience before we actually submitted the permit. you know, everyone is probably aware of the starts and stops we've experienced on this project. this is probably the most studied, you know, energy project in the country right now and we're pretty honored and thrilled that it is finally moving forward -- going forward. i think as far as the lesson learned, and i really kind of defer to our federal friends, but i think what the president has articulated in this commitment to really identify this area of permitting as a real significant, you know, bottleneck shall we say in really putting the resources there, the professionals at the bureau, they're career staffers, they are skilled and very passion fwhat what we do and very regimented in the processes that they follow. they do need more resources. i'm happy to hear that they are getting additional support from their inner agency friends whether it's the army corps of engineers or gina ramundo's shop at the department of commerce. all of that is kind of moving forward now. there's a commitment to permit i believe 16 or 17 projects just in the next four years. that is critical. i think there's a lot of -- we don't have to start from scratch on every single project. we know the environmental impacts. we've been studying it. we're learning from our partners in europe about the impacts and i think drk i think all systems are a go to move this industry forward thoughtfully but with now some confidence that we can build projects, we can protect the environment and we can create a hell of a lot of jobs. >> david, do you want to jump in on that? >> i do. i do. and bill was there, as was i, in the watching cape wind and the challenges there and the recognition was we have to do things differently. and it's the first mover vineyard wind has had a long slog. congratulations to them and the whole team at vineyard wind. but we know how to do this and the points bobby made are all good points. we are committed to have a clean energy bill that's organized and committed and at the same time provides the public with visibility and we end up with better results for the environment, for the industry, for the communities affected. we did this, we showed we could do this with ken salazar in the southwest where we had in 18 months on average we were churning out utility scale solar projects on the public lands because we got all of the agencies together that had equities, we got the developer at the table, we got the stakeholders at the table and we figured out early how to organize this project for success and then we moved out. the tools that we used for that process, congress on a bipartisan basis incorporated into the fast 41 act in 2017 and established the federal permitting improvement steering council which creates a dashboard with expectations and allows the public to see how it's moving. it requires the agencies to all work together in the beginning. the same playbook. now it's in law and we have a new tool in the federal government to use it and the early off shore wind projects are going into what we call tipsy. and with the full support of the administration. we just have a new director now for that and we're doing troubleshooting. we are constantly -- we're having out of the white house every two weeks inner agency discussions on what's happening with off shore wind. if there's a problem, how do we solve them? how do we make sure commerce and interior are joined at the hip? what about supply chain issues? more jones act compliance discussions. the way these things happen, as the governor knows, is not by sitting back and waiting for the problems to surface but to anticipate them, to troubleshoot them and to move forward and we are going to be very transparent for these 17 commercial leases that already are in place as we move through the permitting process. we're going to expect once these things go into review two years later they're going to come out with a result. and it's not going to be easy but we're going to put everything we can behind it. it does require the companies to help out on the up front side and for everyone to be working with major constituency groups on the up side as well, including the fishing industry and we're committed to do that and we're delighted to have former governor riomondo, governor with block island and committed champion for off shore wind over at noaa and commerce department to work with the interior folks as well as d.o.e., d.o.t. and department of defense that helped us out in california to help us out off the central coast. >> david, thank you for those insights. we have about 15 minutes left in the event so i'm going to transition to questions that have been rolling in from our audience. it touches on the themes that you and bill both mentioned around supply chains. kevin asks for everyone here on the panel, how can we accelerate the development of a robust domestic off shore wind supply chain producing primary metals, manufacturing components and the services? governor, why don't we start with you? >> sure. so, look, one -- not the only solution, but one solution is we've got a strong existing industrial base that serves our existing energy economy. a lot of that is concentrated around the oil and gas economy. i know david has talked about this, the biden administration has talked about wanting to help workers and companies transition and help support the renewable energy company as well. you look at things like shipyards, fabrication yards, skilled welders, training programs that start as young in our high schools, that's something we've got in dense concentrations. certainly in the gulf coast, you've got it in texas, you've got it in oklahoma. you've got that in north dakota and colorado and several other states that have traditionally been invested in the oil and gas industry. one part is helping those companies, those workers make that transition. i mentioned hornbeck, we've got several vessels that are we call cold stacked. because of the decrease in oil prices and drilling activity off the coast and the gulf of mexico, we have several vessels being cold stacked not used today. it is so prohibitively stacked you're not going to see vessels built quick enough. to put american mariners pack to work and get them out of there. one of the bottlenecks will be skilled workers. for example, just take an example of mariners. the longer they're not employed, the harder it is to find them when you need them to go service for example we've been talking about off shore wind. secondly, we are going to have to create -- they are going to have to create new supply chains. one of the things will be just as we have now become energy self-sufficient, we should not create a new dependency on countries that don't have america's best interests at heart. you look at some of the minerals, the rare minerals. some are concentrated either in china's direct control or indirect control. so i think it is important that we have a national strategy. again, i think there's bipartisan support both in the administration and congress to make sure that we have a national strategy to secure reliable access to those minerals and to those mining operations here domestically. so one part of the solution is incentives training to help convert some of the existing infrastructure servicing oil and gas. secondly, we have to be intentional. it took us decades to become relatively energy independent after the shell revolution. let's not throw away the independence and wake up years from now dependent on other countries, whether it's for the manufacture of solar panels or for these rare minerals. i think there would be bipartisan support. it's great to have bipartisan support. now we have to execute the plans to make sure we don't become dependent on these countries again. >> thanks, governor. bill, do you have any follow-ups on the supply chain questions and thoughts on policy mechanisms? >> yeah. just briefly what maybe is almost the untold story of the off shore wind industry is, you know, i think there's been a hell of a lot of folks really ready to go and exploring where they could put down roots but there was always that uncertainty whether this was going to be real. i think now what you're seeing with the leadership of the president is that, you know, companies are putting down roots. so one of the major components of an off shore wind turbine is the foundation. you call one of the structures a monopile. the leading european monopile hassett up roots in paulsboro, new jersey. they will be building those components in the years ahead. major commitment to investment. you know, there's already a tower manufacturer already locating in upstate new york along the hudson river near albany that is going to locate and i think you're going to see this acceleration. now that these projects are finally getting in the water, shall we say, led by dominion wind project which will begin wind construction later this year if you can believe it. again, we have pea been pontificating and whistling dixie here so long, i think once this starts to accelerate and folks can actually see the activity, i think it's going to accelerate beyond people's imagination. >> david, thoughts on -- >> i think the supply chain side of this is perhaps some of the most exciting because it's going to stretch back into -- throughout all of our states, not just the coastal states, and i'll just say that these new wind turbines are so huge they cannot be imported. they need to be manufactured here and they will be manufactured here. and it's going to be a new manufacturing industry that's going to need supplies from stem to stern to keep the nautical thing going here. and, you know, bobby mentioned the labor side of this and the needs -- the opportunities it will provide. we're going to need to have help with that, and i want to give a shout out to vineyard wind who had an event a week or so ago in new bedford that gina mccarthy was on hand for. it's the signing of a project labor agreement for a vineyard wind project where labor unions are going to help chain for well paying jobs in this industry. it's very, very, very exciting. finally, i'll endorse bobby's point about critical minerals. the president has issued a critical minerals strategy document that recognizes the importance of having a good, solid supply chain where there's much domestic production as possible of critical minerals. with an attention, obviously, on the environmental side as well to make sure we do it in the right way and the white house is very focused on that piece as well. so this is such a good news story but it's going to require continued attention to make sure that made in america is -- is the label on the off shore wind industry. and there's certainly going to be a need for transition here to some extent because -- and to learn from the europeans, but it's going to be an american industry and we're excited about that. >> thanks, david. i'm hearing a lot of excitement about the kind of promise and possibility for off shore wind. i just wanted to flag a question from bill from our audience about the possibility of off shore wind with green hydrogen production. we see some of this being talked about in europe. bill, i don't know if that's something your company is also thinking about? >> yeah. just one -- before i dive into hydrogen, i was going to actually possibly even disagree with i agree with everything he said. ben said, we need to have a transition. we need to have a transition in order to start this industry up. you know, i think this industry gets it. we know where our bread is buttered. we know that these are -- we are being enabled by states who establish mandates in the government who are doing the cite permitting. we're a mix of americans, europeans and others that are driving this industry forward. i get sometimes afraid that we have to be today all-american. we are using general electric for our first turbine, however, the turbine is built in france and people will say, bill, why aren't you using a u.s. built turbine? they want to stomp their hand. god love them, but there's no such thing as a u.s. off shore turbine right now in the united states. will that eventually happen? yes. but it's not going to happen tomorrow. it's a critical issue. we get it. and as i think both the governor and david said, already vessels, including this wind turbine installation vessel only occur in europe. those vessels don't get -- they're not yet here, shall we say, but dominion is already building one in brownsville, texas, next door to the governor's home state. and so that's a half a billion investment by the way. never mind the jobs that are created by the construction of that vessel and the american crews that are going to assert it. the only message on that front is this is going to take some time. if we put a mandate in and say, i'm sorry, you can't have any flexibility, i think that could hurt the industry going forward. so i took too long but on hydrogen, we're fired up about hydrogen and the aven grid company has just responded to the department of energy and secretary grayholmes' request for information on hydrogen projects. we are looking very much at that as an opportunity. our current company has been leading on hydro again in europe. definitely has our attention. a lot of people want to kind of say, well, it's going to be too expensive but, again, that's what they said about offshore wind and the industry has driven that cost down. and i think with the right amount of incentives and support, we can do the same for hydrogen. >> thank you all. any final words from david or governor jindal as we wrap up? >> i want to do a little shout out for the report that bipartisan policy center has put out on this subject. it's excellent. i know, lessee, you were behind this along with my long-time friend julie andrews and others. we appreciate your spending time and attention on this issue. it truly is a bipartisan issue and it represents such a wonderful opportunity for all of us so thank you for the attention you're giving and putting on this program. >> i would just say real quick, i want to thank the bpc staff. i think they've done a tremendous job and i would encourage people to read the report. i think there's an opportunity to find bipartisan support to build things in america more quickly and cost effectively. there are very real challenges. we didn't get to all of the questions. there were some questions about reliability so we are going to have to discuss in an honest way the role nuclear power has to play, fossil fuels has to play. this is not something you can flip a switch overnight. we have to have reliable as well as affordable energy. to the third point bill was making, the transition is going to be important. i remind people "the new york times" story, this can be a win-win. there are a lot of people with very good paying jobs and benefits in the energy sector. we have to do this in a careful way that preserves jobs and it's important for the economy as well. having said all of that, there are real challenges. this isn't easy. there are ways to find agreement in a polarized environment. i want to close with thanking the bpc folks. anybody that wants to learn more, please do go look at the report. i gave a very brief summary. there are a lot more details to be found in the report. >> thank you to all of our panelists today and to the audience for joining to talk about the opportunities here in unlocking u.s. off shore wind. please go to our website at bipartisanpolicy.org and join more of our energy projects in the future. thanks again and everyone have a great day. >> thanks very much. all the best. >> thanks, governor. thanks, david. great job, leslie. >>> c span is your unfiltered view of government. we're funded by these companies and more, including comcast. >>> weekends on c span 2 bring you the best in american history and nonfiction books. saturday on american history tv at 8 a.m. eastern on lectures in history, a look at the 1863 new york city draft riots and civil war newspapers with city university of new york professor emeritus joshua brown. he discusses how citizens across the country experienced the events through the drawings and articles that chronicaled them. then on the presidency, ronald and nancy ragan. at 2 p.m. a tribute to the first lady. nancy ragan biographer and pete wilson. then august marks the 40th anniversary of president ragan's 1981 tax cuts passing into law. others look back at the legacy of president ragan's economic agenda. >>> book tv features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. sunday at 10 a.m. eastern on afterwards, michelle easton and her book how to raise a conservative daughter. she's interviewed by carrie lukas. and then from the printer's row lit fest. three books. watch american history tv and book tv every weekend on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or visit c-span.org. >>> up next, secretary of state antony blinken testifying before the house foreign affairs committee on the withdrawal from afghanistan. this hearing is about five hours.
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