followed michelle rhee in washington, d.c. for three years. >> i'm terminating your principalship now. >> i think when you're doing the kind of work i'm doing in public education, where the lives and futurees of children hang in the balance, you cannot-- you can't-- you can't play with that. >> she became the face of a kind of what you'd call "test-based accountability," which is using test scores to judge teachers. most countries use test scores to judge students, and tests are designed to measure what students are doing. but we, i think alone among advanced countries, use them to fire or hire or evaluate teachers. >> woodruff: i think the question a lot of people would like to ask you, john merrow, given all the time you've spent looking at our schools is, is are they as bad as the worst critics say they are? >> no. >> woodruff: or are they as good as some of their fierce defenders say they are? >> judy, i would say probably a third of our schools are better than schools have ever been in this country. but that creates a rea