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i love mike dukakis. i think he brings a lot to the table. when you think about all of the factors and contributions and, again, this point of stewardship, i think paul kirk is the right one. i prefer to talk about why him than why not -- why not others. there is a -- there is one thing i will say that is so -- has been so humbling about this experience, and that is looking at this extraordinary field of candidates, and appreciating their deep sense of service. and that was certainly true of mike dukakis as it was of paul kirk as it was of the other finalists. >> you know, the health care debate that's going on now in the senate and in the house in washington, that has consumed the nation. it's consumed much of the country with all of the town hall meetings this past summer. massachusetts health care reform that was initiated several years ago that joined former governor mitt romney and the late senator kennedy, how is that working out? how is that working out? >> well, look, we are probably further along than any other state in the country i

on the other hand, though, no one knows whether it's mike dukakis or paul kirk or somebody else, howote on these all-important amendments. wyden has a really universal public option. rockefeller has a more traditional one. olympia snowe would use a trigger. i haven't the foggiest idea how any of these front-runners would vote on that and i don't think they do either. >> there is some sense that dukakis brings policy area credibility to this issue. i mean, he knows a lot about health care and he's worked on it in academic and political context for a long time, right? >> you could -- i would say without hesitation that mike dukakis probably knows more about this subject than anybody else in the body he might be about to join. now interestingly, some would say that's an argument in his favor. i think from the obama white house perspective, it worries some people a little bit because of -- to the extent dukakis is independent, his own person, you can't always figure out where he's going to come down. my guess is, though, that this next senator is going to vote with the democrats procedur

mike dukakis would have been a fine choice. this is a sentimental action.ys and vicki kennedy would make no sense, something duvall patrick could really think about doing. it sounds like you might have another senator during your trip. >> we'll have charisma this time. dukakis may have been deficient in that department. paul kirk has a lot of it. what about this question of 60 votes? will the reality of 60 democrats change the thinking of you and people like you, like ed schultz, my colleague, who are tough and militant? i use that word positively in your case. >> thank you. >> and in ed's case, who believe the democrats can rule because they wish to. in a ramrod sense. if you have the power, take it and use it. don't wait for 60 votes. do it the hard way. jam it through with reconciliation. i'm talking about health care. 60 votes make it more likely for them to wait and get it the usual way. >> i think they have to wait and try to get it the usual way. we also have the sad situation of senator byrd, so, you know, we're dealing with a situation that's very

any politician who is attacked and doesn't respond and doesn't respond quickly, mike dukakis, john kerry>> i just wonder if this is responding, if he's giving us good answers to letterman's questions. here's an entertainment show asking entertaining questions, but letterman's in tune. let's see how well he's doing with getting some answers. here's the president. >> there's an awful lot of misinformation that gets floated around and that's what we have to fight through. that's why i end up having to be on the dave letterman show to -- you know. >> but the -- i'll tell you, the one idea i would like to see, right away, are these death panels. if we could get them in place immediately. >> well, there's the question. i guess we could do the satire chuck, and you can make fun of the opponent, but a lot of people have in their head right now the notion they're going to have their health care rationed, there's going to be protocols to keep them from getting organ transplants. there are going to be encouragements for older people to think about end-of-life decisions they may not want to make the