they says something about mike flynn. who is above mike flynn other than president trump? >> jared kushner perhaps. >> anyone else? >> one thing we're not talking about -- >> vice president pence and the president. >> jared, the president and -- okay. >> but, you know, the central question of this mueller investigation is, you know, can he prove that the russians colluded with the trump campaign over their interference campaign in the election? and these documents we saw today doesn't shed any light on that. but now mike flynn who is in every meeting, as evan just said, and knows all the secrets of the trump campaign and the first three weeks of the trump administration, now he's under an obligation to tell mueller everything he may know about any of that collusion if it existed. and so you can't ask for a better witness if you're robert mueller than a guy like mike flynn. >> joyce, let me follow up with you on that string of this conversation. i am also told by a prosecut prosecutor -- that other people who are targets of the investigation don't know what mike flynn has a

mike flynn. >> good day. i'm andrea mitchell with that breaking news. former national security adviser michael flynn pleading guilty to making false statements to the fbi. t during the transition and while flynn was in office as national security adviser to president trump. this is the biggest bomb since robert mueller's investigation landing inside the trump white house. let's bring in our team across washington. nbc's kristen welker at the white house. chief correspondent pete williams will be joining us momentarily, "washington post" columnist david ignatius, political analyst carol lee and chuck todd. pete, let's go to you first. from what we know about the documents filed in court, because there were several unnamed transition officials, and i want to go to chuck todd and follow up on that. >> okay, so this is basically about two separate occasions on which michael flynn had contacts with the russian ambassador before the president became the president in late december, and according to the

turkey appears to be paying mike flynn when he advocated they shouldn't do that. when flynn advocated a bizarre plan to sprinkle nuclear reactors around the middle east, that idea he promoted in private life but as national security adviser, he appears to have been paid to promote that cause, as well. flynn was linked by an effort by pro-trump political activist to contact russian government hackers to try to get from them stolen hillary clinton e-mails that the trump campaign could use against her. peter smith is the late operative running that operation. he said before he died that he was working with mike flynn on that operation. it's now a matter of not just journalistic record but filings that are attested and true that during the transition he held secret conversations about undermining and dropping sanctions against russia including the sanctions levied by the obama administration in response to russia messing with our election. we know thanks to the guilty plea that flynn filed in d.c. district court that he lied to the fbi about those conversations with ru

mike flynn and bob mueller right now agree on what mike flynn did wrong and tonight they begin collaborating on the same goal, flynn signing a cooperation agreement to help bob mueller solve crime. so we begin tonight with a few facts that mike flynn admitted today. everything i'm about to report has been admitted to and signed by mike flynn. point number one, flynn lied about russia contacts. he lied about all of his dealings on russia, the core of the substance of what he was doing in the transition. he lied about it to the fbi. number two, flynn lied about sanctions on russia. he lied to the fbi about the trump's transition team's plot to coordinate and undermine the new sanctions he put in place against putin. so at the very moment the obama administration was punishing russia, mike flynn was undercutting those sanctions and hide that thought from the fbi, third, ki tell you, a fact their tonight, flynn did not act alone. the nation is processing a story, a story that bob mueller got mike flynn to tell. it's a story that flynn didn't act alone and that might be good news for flynn as a c

so mike flynn in a statement says he was directed by somebody in the trump transition. well, let's think about -- let's go back into our little time machine there in december. who would have flynn felt he could have been directed by into doing things? you have mike pence. but remember and stephanie you'll remember this well. you were covering on the economic side of things. pence was really focused more on the domestic side of things. jared kushner, though, was the shadow transition chief. and i would put a big star on jared kushner here for a second. and then of course you have potentially reince priebus. again, i think he was working in concert with pence. then you have trump himself. we already know that kushner had some meetings with russian officials in december as well. this feels as if flynn is going to be the person that connects kushner to this. and of course once you connect the president's son-in-law, then you've connected the president here. there aren't many more dots after mike flynn, right? your dots go to kushner and then the president. there really are n

, it's all about mike flynn and bad things mike flynn did.ynn seems to imply, we may find out, he did this at the direction of a senior transportation official we believe, now know to be jared kushner. at some point as a conservative, this has got to smell pretty bad? >> well, the part of ty cobb's statement i find silly, the idea this is wrapping up. if that's what he really believes the white house needs to do a dramatic substitution of its legal staff, because this is a very serious battle. it may have nothing to do with russia collusion, but their going after anyone associated with the administration, the campaign, this will last a very long time and by no means over. as a conservative, the other thing that bothers me and many others i think, the reason we know about michael flynn, we've known about these conversations a long time with the russian ambassador. his name was unmasked in intelligence report and leaked illegally to the media. there seems to be no prosecution of that. why a lot of conservatives are frustrated with the justice d

over mike flynn and potentially over other people. esumably all of those people involved know exactly how that next step is likely to play out. >> mike pence is one of the only experienced public servants in this room. i find it very unlikely that he deliberately went on television and lied about something this important. i don't buy. >> it and somebody else, second most unlikely person to make a mistake like this, reince priebus. >> been around town. >> and knows, know how to, like, not say anything. right? but to do -- something other than -- >> vice president can filibuster. >> exactly. >> like a nart. >> senator. >> who's taking the most tums today? jared kushner? donald trump jr.? or is steve bannon throwing in some tums? don't forget, he was a senior transition official, too. >> and could meet the description, you know, of someone -- >> descriptions, too, at the time. yet he's not here. >> i think, look, jared kushner is on a maalox i.v. drip today. really. face it. he -- >> he's the only one in government. >> in government. very

ivanka, mike flynn and vladimir putin.hris matthews, i want to go to scranton, pennsylvania with you. you went to scranton. you sat down with voters. i want to talk about what they care about today. because as lawrence just said this is the darkest day in the trump administration. yesterday, axios said it was the darkest day in the trump administration because president trump retweeted those anti-islamic videos, some of which were fake. but there's a lot of people out there that would say yesterday was a winning day. we got one step closer to getting the tax cuts through. today is an even bigger winning day if the fact they got ron johnson's vote this morning and they're getting closer to tax reform. so do the american people look at today as big of a deal as you and i do? >> well, clearly, let me -- that's a big question, stephanie. i think there's always going to be a division, the hard-liners, somewhat around 30% of the country. he almost could walk down fifth avenue, as he said, shoot somebody and they'd be sticking wi

he was asking the fbi to back off because he thought mike flynn had broken the law and mike flynn could point the finger and testify to the president himself had broken the law. >> danny, is there any concern from a prosecutorial standpoint of leaning -- potentially leaning so much on a witness like general flynn who in court this morning admitted to lying to the fbi? >> this is a standard problem with any cooperating witness agreement. i mean, routinely the government and state prosecutors, too, will get involved with fellow criminals in order to implicate more criminals. so, this is, again, standard operating procedure. any time you have a cooperating witness like flynn, he'll be open to cross-examination based on his credibility. not just his credibility, and particularly in the case of a crime that involves deceit, but also because as the defense attorneys at trial would obviously point out, he's singing for his supper. he's sitting there testifying, not out of the goodness of his heart. not because he's a good samaritan. but because his ultimate sentence depends on it. his freedom

the mike flynn of yester month?>> now, the mystery is, just how far up the campaign and the administration did flynn's russian outreach go? >>> this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. president trump campaigning tonight for roy moore in alabama's special senate race, where voters go to the polls in just four days. >> we need somebody in that senate seat who will vote for our make america great again agenda. which involves -- which involves tough on crime, strong on borders, strong on immigration. and we want jobs, jobs, jobs, so, get out and

they say that was only a shocking firing offense for mike flynn. that doesn't make any sense. choose your own adventure here. either vice president mike pence is totally truthful and everyone lied to him while he was running the transition and all these people who answered to him they all lied to him, they all allowed him to take public lies knowingly and for some reason he has never minded that at all, never bothered him, or the vice president told the same lies to cover up for flynn that everybody else did too. in which case, why? why did he do that? and why did all these other senior members of the white house staff all tell lies to cover up what mike flynn did when they knew otherwise? mike flynn has now pled guilty to lying to the fbi, and he is cooperating with the mueller investigation. the white house explanation for why flynn was fired is athat he had to be fired because he lied to the vice president. that explanation is plainly not true. and robert mueller's investigators are now reportedly on that like lions on a gazelle. this part of the white house explanation for

it read like a document that was not written by mike flynn. s" later reveals that flynn had been hired as a lobbyist several months earlier by inovo bv, a company headed by a turkish businessman. >> i called him and i asked him how much he was paying flynn. he said it was around $100,000. it has emerged that flynn's group was paid more than half a million dollars. >> in fact, it is registered as a dutch company, its owner is connected to the turkish government. >> michael flynn was supposed to be providing unbiased advice to president trump and to his broader campaign. but he was being paid by interests within the turkish government that clearly had a policy preference when it came to the united states policy. >> he was so dismissive and angry at generals who sell their stars. that's what he told me. that how could they trade on their career service and go out and use their stars to make money. and he was doing the same thing. >> soon after the election, president-elect trump visits president obama in the oval office for a private meeting. >> p

more prodly, lbroadly, if they these senior officials in terms of what they are saying about mike flynn and whether or not the president should be on the hook for obstructing justice in the flynn case, the counsel will stand against the rest of the white house on this, that's a big, big deal. not unprecedented. john dean was the single most important witness against nixon in watergate but nixon fired john dean in watergate. before john dean started singing his own tune. don mcgahn still works at the white house so if he's handing stuff over to muller that says the president is legally on the hook for obstruction of justice, it's going to have a bigfect e on the president's future. it's weird he's still working there. we contacted the white house and could get in comment from them and white house counsel's office and person lawyer who is reince p priebus' lawyer. interesting because of the reporting in the president's russia lawyers may be meeting with robert mueller and his team now, today or tomorrow sometime late this week to talk about the president's fate in this investigation. so t

the president must know one way or the other, if he had been advised or if he believed that mike flynn had lied to the fbi, and that's why the fbi was after him. the president knows if he knew, before flynn resigned, did he know? after flynn resigned, did he know? did he know at any time before flynn pled guilt to those charges? this is a knowable thing. but the president himself and white house steadfastly will not answer that question. >> two quick questions, when did the president know that mike flynn lied at the fbi? >> as i said earlier, i referred you to john's clarification -- >> i'm asking for a day, when did he find out? was it when the announcement was made friday, was it prior to that? >> again, i'm not aware of the specifics, but i would refer you to john -- i would refer you to john dowd. >> no problem. point to you, you have weighed in on other special counsel issues before. statement of fact during administration what day the president discovered this lie issue. >> and i'm telling you as a statement of fact you should contact john dowd. doesn't seem that hard. >> i'll as

went back and actually tried to find wrongdoing on mike flynn is a very interesting and important part of this story. >> sandra: thank you boefmgt i know you are standing by as the news break. we'll get to katie pavlich. she just tweeted out. flynn better leave for court soon. does he know how long it takes to get to d.c. for traffic? >> bill: see whether or not he is at home or on the move. it is 10:06 in the morning east coast time. you are going to get the possibility of a vote on this tax reform bill today. we've been given indications that some of these senators who are on the fence last night are going to cross over and suggest they are a yes vote. we will watch that story. at 2:00 eastern time there is a press conference at democratic congressman john conyer's house in detroit, michigan. what does that have to do with? we're told that it will be addressed. meaning the issue and the answer as to whether or not john conyers will resign from his office. so we're awaiting all that. katie pavlich with us now. katie, good morning, to you. the first time we've spoken. you are initial r

there was a loyal and hard core cadre of officers that were aligned behind mike flynn. ders and followers who were not aligned behind flynn. >> when did you first begin to believe it wasn't working? >> it was a gradual thing. i began to hear things from people in dia and people whose judgment i trusted and valued, that there were problems. >> what kind of problems? >> it had to do with mike's management style. i was concerned about the impact on the workforce. >> just two years into a three-year term, flynn was out. forced into an early retirement. >> we had a wonderful retirement ceremony for mike. >> many know that i like to surf, so the way i would like to put it is that life is like surfing a wave. you can't change the way the wave breaks, but you can change the way you ride it. >> for the soldier's soldier and self-proclaimed maverick, his 33-year military career was over. >> ladies and gentlemen, for the first time i introduce to you lieutenant general michael t. flynn, united states army, retired. [ applause ] >> it was really a great ceremony. but i think you cou

a lot of news organizations have been preparing their mike flynn packages of coverage in anticipationolutely. everyone knew -- not everyone. a lot of people close to the president certainly knew flynn was in trouble. they expected an indictment. what was in it, financial crimes and false statements and knew he was cooperating recently when he called off the defense agreement. so those things we knew. the timing was a surprise. muller does not call the white house and give him a heads up. so the timing was a surprise. they did have to find out about it from tv news and the guilty plea element was a surprise. i would also say that muller is so crafty at laying these little nuggets throughout the court filings. the very senior white house official, the senior white house official, these little bread crumbs that catch everybody off guard we've seen now with manafort and flynn. >> chris matthews tonight said it was like a beautifully choreographed ballet. darlene, i hope you have a monitor where you are. our graphics department has been shoveling a lot of coal together a -- tonight and put

it came to what message to pass on to russian ambassador sergey kislyak about russian sanctions, mike flynn called his deputy katie mcfarland. when it came to what to tell the russians and others about a u.n. resolution about israel, flynn consulted jared kushner. flynn was not a free agent. he had not, to borrow a phrase, gone rogue. "the new york times" reporting, mr. flynn was in close touch with other senior members of the trump transition team both before and after he spoke with the russian ambassador sergey kislyak about american sanctions against russia. joining our panel today, kimberly atkins, chief washington reporter for the boston herald, now an nbc contributor. michael steele, former chairman of the rnc. jason johnson, msnbc contribute our and amy stoddard, associate editor and columnist for real clear politics. let me start with you, chairman steele. this mike flynn fantasy that he was some rogue actor, some guy who lied but didn't have to does not compute. glen kessler from the post tweeted it's worth keeping in mind that flynn served in the military for 33 years and was trai

they say that was only a shocking firing event for mike flynn. that doesn't make any sense. i mean, choose your own adventure. vice president mike pence is totally truthful and everyone lied to him running the transition and all these people that answered to him and lied to him and allowed hill m to tell public lies and he doesn't mind that. never bothered him. or the vice president told the same lies to cover up for flynn that everybody else did, too. in which case, why? why did he do that? and why did all these other senior members of the white house staff tell lies to cover up what mike flynn did when they knew otherwise? mike flynn pled guilty to lying to the fbi. the explanation flynn was fired is he had to be fire because he lied to the vice president. that's not true and robert mueller's investigators are on that likely ons on lions on a g. this never made sense from the very beginning but now, i at least, finally have a sense somebody will figure out the real deal. patrick woke up with back pain. but he has work to do. so he took aleve. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be

so it's pretty clear, mike flynn was not a rogue operator here.really doing what trump wanted, which was to reach out to the kremlin and one of the spins that you hear today from some people today that are friendly to trump is, you know, what he's pleading guilty to is basically something that any normal national security official would do reaching out to the kremlin. establishing good relations. well, no. there is a reason he was lying because they were under cutting american policy and i suspect this was a quid pro quo with the campaign. putin was going to help get trump elected. i think that's the deal he was communicating with kislyak, and that's why he was lying. and that will come to the forefront. >> the day will come when priebus mcgahn will be under oath and tell the president what they did and that got the president to fire michael flynn and we heard michael flynn tell america, we heard donald trump tell america that michael flynn didn't do anything wrong. >> right and there are certainly some perplexing disconnects in the public stateme

mike flynn pled guilty to lying to the fbi about his conversations with the russian government concerning sanctions. vice president mike pence right this second is roasting on proverbial spit about his discussions with american people not just about mike flynn but whether he was talking to the russians about sanctions. thanks to the guilty plea and releases, lots of people on the transition were involved in discussions during the transition about sanctions. knew that mike flynn was talking to russians about sanctions. all also knew that vice president mike pence was lying to the american people about sanctions. that trump tower meeting about which donald trump jr. is now exploring the concept of attorney/client privilege -- what is an attorney really? that trump tower meeting has been kept secret nearly a year. they've been downplaying idea anything at that meeting was of significance or importance. believe them or not, one thing they for sure spoke about at that meeting, sanctions. trump's personal lawyer and mob connected russian ex-con who has worked with the trump transition met to wr

eight months ago tweeting, mike flynn should ask for immunity in that this is a witch hunt, excuse for big election loss, by media and dems. flynn has long been a political lightning rod. after being pushed out of the obama administration, he became a lobbyist, advocating for closer ties with russia. sitting next to vladimir putin at an event by a russia propaganda network where flynn gave a paid speech. his biggest public moment once inside the white house as national security adviser, this tough talk against iran. >> we are officially putting iran on notice. >> reporter: but flynn had become a controversial figure behind the scenes. in january, then acting attorney general sally yates warning the white house that its national security adviser may be subject to blackmail by the russians based on his false accounts with the russians through the russian ambassador. two weeks later flynn was fired after it was revealed he had misled the vice president about those conversations. and yates' warning became public in "the washington post." the president explaining his decision. >> i fired hi

russians and don't forget the wall street journal story that robert mueller is investigating whether mike flynnas part of an effort to find the missing hillary clinton e-mails during the campaign. so i think there is a lot left to learn about what mike plflyn may know. >> ken dilanian, appreciate it. >>> a look back at the person that tried to save donald trump from this day. president barack obama. each year sarah climbs 58,007 steps. that's the height of mount everest. because each day she chooses to take the stairs. at work, at home... even on the escalator. that can be hard on her lower body, so now she does it with dr. scholl's orthotics. clinically proven to relieve and prevent foot, knee or lower back pain, by reducing the shock and stress that travel up her body with every step she takes. so keep on climbing, sarah. you're killing it. dr. scholl's. born to move. ♪ when you have doctors working as a team for your health, you get the care you need to help you thrive. ♪ visit kp.org to learn more. kaiser permanente. thrive. ♪ when trying to save for the big things in life... we tend to sta

the vice president if for example michael flynn were to offer testimony to special prosecutor now that he's cooperating that would implicate donald trump or mike pence in crimes. but today, president trump had to be schooled in the uselessness of his pow tore pardon michael flynn. before michael flynn was allowed to plead guilty to the felony of lying to the fbi in exchange for a light sentence or possibly no sentence at all, michael flynn had to tell special prosecutor robert mueller everything michael flynn knows. that begin with his lawyers making what they call a proffer, the legal term for what they call the special prosecutor what michael flynn, their client could tell them if the special prosecutor offers michael flynn a plea deal. before robert mueller and his team heard a word out of the mouth of michael flynn, they had already heard from michael flynn's lawyers and what michael flynn had to say, something very helpful to the prosecutors and then when they questioned michael flynn, michael flynn knew lying to them would be another crime that he could be charged with so robert mueller took in everything flynn had to say about donald tr

flynn believed that ending the sanctions could allow a business project he had once participated in to move forward according to the whistleblower. and mike mimoli covering this story at nbc news writes donald trump was just 11 minutes into his presidency when flynn texted a former business partner to say ambitious u.s. collaboration with russia to build nuclear reactors in the middle east was, quote, good to go, according to a new whistleblower account. this news comes as the president's son donald trump jr. fielded questions from the house intel committee today. let's get to our reporters and gifts on all of these stories. msnbc national security analyst and former chief of staff at both the department of defense and the cia, jeremy bash joins us, along with "new york times" reporter msnbc national security contributor michael schmidt, one of the reporters on this new flynn story today and our panel. associated press white house reporter jonathan lemire. michael schmidt, let me start with you and the story that we were in our meeting watching the president's speech about making that big announcement about the middle east when we saw you

he could have learned that mike flynn lied from mike flynn. and possibly what really happened across those 18 days, brian, was that there were numerous conversations inside the west wing about how precisely to thwart the fbi's investigation into the russia matter because they came from mike flynn, that surely meant they were going to come interview others. they were probably going to come interview steve bannon. they were probably going to interview kellyanne conway, reince priebus, others, maybe even the vice-president, maybe even the president. there probably were numerous strategy sessions that maybe the president presided over, maybe he was briefed upon, at which they discussed, how do we get the fbi off of our trail? and when you put the president atop a large discussion, a large meeting, an ongoing role in a meeting, that in effect is sitting on top of conspiracy to obstruct justice. >> julia, you report that the d.o.j. assumption was that flynn would get canned right after sally yates dropped this bomb in the west wing. what is the stat

newly-released court documents give us some insight into what specifically mike flynn is going to give the special counsel and it is significant. according flynn will testify that before he met with russian ambassador sergey kislyak he personally spoke with a senior official of the president transitional team who he will testify was also with members of the other transitional team down at mar-a- lago. he said they had a long conversation what if anything they should discuss with the russian ambassador and specifically the transition team said they did want him to talk about sanctions and how not to escalate this situation between the united states and russia following sanctions that had been put forth by the obama administration. now, this is very significant because this takes the onus off of mike flynn for having initiated this meeting with the russian ambassador and shows that this was actually directed by the president's transition team. so this is a very valuable piece of evidence for robert mueller in his ongoing investigation into russian influence in the 2016 campaign. >> just

to answer your question, if the president were to pardon mike flynn, that doesn't preclude the muller team from continuing to use investigation that general flynn has. >> okay. >> in other words, it gets him off the hook for a crime he may have committed but doesn't remove the obligation to give testimony should he be subpoenaed. >> in terms of him testifying, i know that the calculous that mike flynn might have about continuing to cooperate with the government might change for him if he's partdoned if he knows they can't prosecute him anymore. he's given them information. they want to put him on the stand. can they still put him on the stand. would it affect the value of the testimony? >> two things about that. one is down can compel him to testify and answer questions but i think when somebody is being compelled, it's very different from if they have an incentive to cooperate. they would be volunteering information. they would be suggesting leads and connecting the dots for you. if instead, you got to pull teeth to answer questions, you'll get yes, no answers. the other wrinkle here

because four days later on january 30th president trump fires sally yates, not mike flynn, sally yatesbut it is not until february 13th, nearly three weeks after yates' warning about flynn that flynn himself is forced to resign. in those 18 days between the time the white house found out flynn had been lying and the time he was actually pushed out, that robert mueller is focused on. i want to bring in nbc's carol lee who led breaking this massively important story. carol, explain why these 18 days are so important to mueller's investigation. we have to remind our viewers, president trump, even the day mike flynn left that night, i think it was like 4:00 in the afternoon, kellyanne conway was on tv, saying the president stands with mike flynn, and then the president after the fact said it was the media, we were pushed into this, mike flynn's a good guy. so walk us through this. >> i think you laid it out really well in terms of why these 18 days are so critical. one of the significant things that has come up in our reporting is that people who have been interviewed by mueller's team bel

it wasn't just mike flynn who knew he was discussing sanctions with russia. t was multiple members of the trump transition team. the trump transition team was run by mike pence. so the story can no longer be that flynn, bad apple, rogue actor, lied to the vice president and that's why the vice president told those unwitting lies to the american public. that is over. that can no longer be their rational contention. the story now has to be that not just mike flynn but the entire transition team that mike pence was overseeing all conspired together to lie to mike pence and then agreed to keep the lie going for weeks and weeks as the vice president kept unwittingly repeating the lie to the american public. it's either that or the vice president was lying on purpose, telling the american people something that he also knew was not true. the old story is now dead. the vice president needs a new explanation for his behavior. that is one thing that the white house hasn't got around to fixing yet. the other problem the white house has now that they have no explanation f

very defensive of mike flynn. that's the kind of conduct you would expect if the president was forced to fire mike flynn not because he lied, but because the lie was exposed. and if the president is one of those senior transition officials who was knowing of the contact and perhaps even supporting this contact with the russian ambassador, that would explain both his reluctance to fire flynn, but also why he would be intervening with james comey and urging comey to drop the flynn case. >> what does everybody -- carol, what do you make of the fact that the president, when he first came into office, said, i didn't tell good general flynn to talk to the russians but i should have or would have. it reminded me of the o.j. story, o.j. writing "if i did it." why would he play coyly like that? >> what he said at the time was essentially -- he was trying to say there was nothing wrong with what michael flynn did. he was saying, i didn't know about it but if i did, it would have been fine. because he wanted to make it seem

look, bigger news today isn't mike flynn pled guilty, it's that mike flynn is cooperating with bob mueller. mike flynn was probably the president's most frequent travel come pain i don't know th companion that wasn't paid for by the campaign. he was there when cory lewandowski was there. all those guys came and went, mike flynn was there. so, this is somebody who has, i think, a lot of interactions to share with bob mueller, with jared kushner, the president's son-in-law, a lot of interactions with donald trump, jr. i think at this point the reason why there is a lot of nervous us nervousness in the white house, there's not many more places to go than mike flynn. the dots left are kushner, trump junior, trump. >> as we know, president trump has been protecting from the get-go mike flynn. what are we to read into that? >> you know, that's the part of this to me that makes this the 5-a going off. i think it's the 5-alarm in that sense because the reason why bob mueller has a job is because the president was trying to get james comey to drop an investigation onto mike flynn. clearly the presi

if the president were to pardon mike flynn now, what would happen to the testimony that mike flynn has presumably already offered the mueller team as part of coming to this plea deal. am i right in assuming that he's probably already given information to mueller's team? >> i think you should assume he has and assume he's given a lot of information to the muller -- mueller team. so to answer your question, if the president were to pardon mike flynn, that doesn't preclude the mueller team from continuing to use information that general flynn has. >> okay. >> in other words, it gets him off the hook for a crime he may have committed but doesn't remove the obligation to give testimony should he be subpoenaed. >> in terms of him testifying, i know that the calculus that mike flynn might have about continuing to cooperate with the government might change for him if he's pardoned if he knows they can't prosecute him anymore. would he end up testifying? he's already given them information. they want to put him on the stand. can they still put him on the stand? would it affect the value of that

mike flynn. if he was forced to fire quinn because he lied or the lie was exposed. if the president is one of the senior officials knowing of the contact. perhaps, even, supporting this contact. that would explain his reluctance to fire flynn, but, also, why he would be -- intervening, with, with james comey, and urging comey to drop the flynn case. >> what its, start with you, what do you make of the fact that the president, when he first came into office said. i didn't tell, general flynn to talk to the russians. but i should have. would have. reminded me like the oj story. oj wrote a book if i did kind of thing. >> why would he play coyly like that? >> well, what he said at the time was, he was trying to say nug no nothing yowrong. because he wanted to make it seem insignificant. or diminish it. >> covering for something he was denying. >> anyway. sorry. >> no. going to say. that, you know, other piece of this is that, that, mike pence, was under the impression until today, that, that, michael

they'd look specifically into mike flynn's payments from foreign sources. and despite their very narrow focus on just that piece of it, the house oversight committee appears to have stumbled on to something unexpectedly rich. their inquiries turned up the news that mike flynn had apparently not disclosed his foreign payments from russia even though he had been told explicitly and in wting that he needed to do that. the department of defense inspector general's office announced that they had start add independent investigation of mike flynn. the white house remarkably -- remarkably refused to hand over any documents to the house oversight committee about mike flynn. they would not hand over a single document, a single piece of paper about mike flynn. and that's a -- an important stonewall there. and the democrats on that committee reacted the way you'd expect. they were not happy with that refusal. democrats on that committee said their chairman, jason chaffetz, should demand to get those flynn documents from the white house. he should subpoena those documen

so he may only know what mike flynn knows, but he may also know more than the white house sort of can imagine. that this becomes sort of an investigation that is impossible to imagine if you're being investigated. and that's always the advantage that a prosecutor has over his sort of the subjects and the witnesses. because the white house doesn't have any way of knowing who's already helped fill in different pieces and one of the chief concerns is that on just the simple things that someone could be wearing a wire. i mean no one had heard of george popadopoulos but now he's a household name, but there could be other people that mike flynn interacted with a whole bur bunch of people on the campaign, and it is a known unknown that the white house can not function as though it's business as usual. >> i think that's exactly right, nicole, there's a lot that mueller's doing that we don't know either. wh trying to keep tabs on the investigation, trying to read the tea leaves, find out who's been interviewed by mueller and piecing to some guesses some assumptions so that the president can st

agent, strosk, had something different in his note, his summary of what mike flynn said than what mike flynn said he said. so he pled. out from under the terrible egal fees that this task force seems to have unlimited authority. bysn't seem to be reigned in rod rosenstein appointed by mueller, of course not. because rosenstein and mueller were involved in getting files aled, the facts of which should have prevented, what we understand should have prevented the sale of american uranium from ever going forward. so it only makes sense, gee, convince jeff sessions to recuse himself. he said he talked to the career guys, like rosenstein. rosenstein could be considered a career guy, and then he appoints his buddy that helped him in the russia investigation over years which established that russia was trying to cornering the market, they were committing crimes to get american uranium and if that came out, then hillary clinton wouldn't be able to get her buddies to approve that sale so russia could end up with our uranium and if russia didn't end up with so much of our uranium, do you really t

what does mike flynn know? trump's team planning to attack flynn's credibility saying as he liar only protecting himself. another saying, he said it himself. he is a liar. that being a reference, of course, to him pleading guilty in this probe. everyone knows flynn flipped. that means he stopped sharing any information about his preparations with the white house team. he agreed to work mueller. that's what's going on. we knew that. what makes this so intriguing is even after the firing of flynn, trump held back on criticizing him. >> this man has served for many years. he's a general. he is, in my opinion, a very good person. >> that was story number one. then you may remember story number two. tried out through trump's aides and spokespeople and lawyers saying they weren't concerned. then after mike flynn even signed this agreement which put it on notice. he is cooperating fully. there was to public attack at that time. so this is a change. this "washington post" report tells us something. meanwhile, another tr

clearly the president is nervous about what mike flynn knows. you read this plea deal and you realize that mike flynn got directions to talk sbangss. the vice president and the incoming chief-of-staff reince priebus both went on television shows, one of them was mine on sunday and said that mike flynn did not discuss sanctions in there. so either they lied or flynn and somebody else is keeping stuff om and that's possible. there may be people that know stuff and people that kept out of the loop and if you're intentionally keeping people out of the loop you have a conspiracy. >>> to keep you in the loop in this investigation, "meet the press" airs sunday morning at 10:30 on news4. >>> breaking news now. any minute the senate is expected to vote on the massive republican tax plan. i want to show you a live look at the senate floor. bob corker is the only senator to say he will vote against the $1.4 trillion tax bill. this will temporarily cut individual tax rates. there are no guarantees that everybody in the middle class will see their taxes go d

and that is what we saw today with mike flynn. mike flynn taking a plea is actual action.l the months president trump has lots of rhetoric. there is lots of smoke around russia. but even when terrorirump saysc things, his team walks it back the next day. but today mike flynn taking a plea is scary in terms of geopolitics, it is scary when abc is making you think that this could affect the presidency. that is a big deal. >> but until we know that, it is unlikely that the market will blow up. because even at 350 points, as a percentage basis, this is not devastating. >> without a doubt. listen, the market is up 30 on% this year. and investors know that. it is december. they will take their profits and not go through this wild ride of decemb december. if they think things are looking shaky, they will sell today and sit in cash because they have a great year. >> stay with us because we want to talk with wall street regaining some of those losses of course. because this afternoon on the senate floor, senator mitch mcconnell came out on and he announced that republicans have the

but what's in it it for mike flynn to lie? >> it would have looked really bad for the trump administration to have been negotiating an easing of sanctions even before they took office in january. the obama administration kpeld 35 russian dip mots mats. they impoised harsh sanctions on russia. and for it to come out that other transition officials, the idea that they were actively working to undermine that in december before they were even in the white house, that would have made it look like, perhaps, they were paying russia back for something, perhaps they were trying to, you know, repay them for help to win the election. it just would have been horrible optics and i think that really gets to the heart of what mueller wants to know now. he never really was interested in, you know, trying to figure out if mueller lied to the fbi, it was always end game for the end question for muler is why did he lie to the fbi and who directed him to do that. who directed him not only to speak to kislyak about the sanctions issue, but who pos

that was before the avalanche of headlines about mike flynn having this other reason for spiking sanctions at the logan sxakt why some of the white house's arguments might not help flynn that much. we may be hearing more about this 200-year-old law. >> i don't think it is wrong for a transition person to talk to a foreign government about policy. i don't think it is worth the paper it is written on. >> it is the constitutional right even for a presidency nts final days to conduct without interference. people say the logan act. 218 years old. it is still a law on the books. >> a lot of interest in this logan sxakt the incoming administration and the trump team in transition reaching out to foreign governments. >> it boys down to one word. unauthorized. it makes it a crime to hold unauthorized negotiations or discussions with other countries. in his plea, mike flynn admitted to talking to russia with undercutti undercutting. now let's be clear. the u.s. has only prosecuted two people for this kind of crime. neither was convicted. and trump allies say that sparse record makes any prosecution

. >> michael schmidt, we know that mike flynn is talking. what we don't know, what chris christie reminded me is we don't know how long he's been talking and about whom. let me show you something jeff sessions said about doing just what he is about to embark on. >> i believe the proper thing for me to do would be to recuse myself from any questions involving those kind of investigations that involve secretary clinton and that were raised during the campaign. or could be otherwise connected to. >> you intend to recuse yourself from both the clinton e-mail investigation and any matters involving the clinton foundation if there are any? >> yes. >> so two questions for you, michael schmidt. one, he seems to be, again, tangled in the web of his own testimony before congress. the guy should really -- his new year's resolution should be to stop testifying under oath in congress but it's impossible to overstate how much peril jeff sessions is in politically with this president. this president would love to have somebody else as his attorney general.