mike flynn was pleading the fifth. sidney powell did talk. they had not spoken to jack smith's team that we're aware of. that could target potential targets. >> i want to bring in potential analyst elie honig with us here. we mentioned just now the january 6th meeting. i want to play some of what white house officials said about that meeting when they were questioned by a january 6th committee. let's watch. >> i saw general flynn. i saw sidney powell sitting there. i was not happy to see the people in the oval office. >> explain what? >> well, again, i don't think they were providing -- well, first of all, the overstock person, i'd i didn't know who this guy was. actually, the first thing i did, i walked in, i looked at him, and i said "who you?" and he told me. i don't think any of these people were providing the president with good advice. the three of them were really sort of forcefully attacking me verbally. and we were pushing back and asking one simple question. as a general matter. where is the evidence? >> if it had been me sitting in

mike flynn was pleading the fifth. sydney powell did talk. they have not spoken to jack smith's team that were aware of. that could signal that they are potentially targets. >> i want to bring in senior legal analyst elie honig with us here. we mentioned it just now, the january 6th meeting. i want to play some of what the white house officials have said about that meeting when they were questioned by the january six committee. let's watch. >> i saw sydney powell sitting there. i was not happy to see the people in the oval office. >> saying? what >> again, i don't think they were providing -- first of all, the overstock person, i've never met him, i did not know if we got was. i think the first thing i did, i walked in, looked at him and said, who are you? and he told me. i don't think any of these people were providing the president with good advice. the three at them were forcefully attacking me. derek, and we were pushing back for asking lots of questions, as a general matter. where is the evidence? >> i mean, if it was sitting in his chai

they also asked about those outsiders that were there, sydney powell, mike flynn, the former overstock c e o, this meeting is also notable because it came four days after members of the electoral college met in all 50 states, to officially cast their ballots, declaring joe biden was indeed the winner. after that chaotic meeting late into the evening, that is when trump sent this tweet about the january 6th rally that was going to happen in just a few weeks, saying, it will be wild. all of these developments are coming tonight as we also know trump's body man turned codefendant, walt nada, has finally appeared, after quite a delay. nearly a month after the president was indicted in the documents probe. the former navy vet from guam is facing a very real possibility of years behind bars now for allegedly helping hide government secrets align to investigators. all of this is raising the question of what is going to happen to nada going forward, what the legal strategy will look like. in the past we have seen people who are loyal to the former president flip before.nd tonight, our first gu

he had security, as did mike flynn, from the oath keepers and the proud boys.s always an assumption that he, that's ban, and that others were sort of the connection between the white house and those extremist groups. we didn't get that kind of cooperation and could not establish that length, but that is precisely why, the special counsel, i think, is interested in the activity at the war room. special counsel has totals we didn't have, that getting additional information about what occurred there. looking for that connection between but sort of head of this conspiracy to disrupt the joint session, the former president, and some folks who were on the ground. >> okay. perry and tim, thank you so much for being with us. and a programming note, one of the key january six committee witnesses has a big revelation about jack smith's grand jury. hear from sarah matthews, former trump white house deputy press secretary, tomorrow at one. here on alex witt reports. our next story got the vice president so angry. she flew to florida to speak out about it. and it will defin

he had security, as did mike flynn, from the oath keepers to the proud boys. is always an assumption that he, that bannon, that others were sort of, the connection between the white house and those extremist groups. we didn't get that kind of cooperation, and could not establish that link. that is precisely why the special counsel's interested and the activity that is in the war room. >> sarah, do you know if anyone inside the white house, on an around january six, with any connection or communication to the so-called war room at the world or hotel? >> that wasn't something that i was involved with, or anyone on our team, to my knowledge. i think that that will be something crucial that the special counsel is looking to given that it seems that there may or may not have been communication with those kinds of far-right extremist groups. >> do you think that there might be a connection that you know of because there really wasn't a line of communication between the war room and to trump, or do you think that the players, that they had that communication, and it'

it's an extensive network from trump to navarro to mike flynn, the oath keep eers that doesn't have tohey just have to have the same objectives. sometimes they are chaos. and when you have got any number of people who are angry, political motivated, share values and have weapons and messages from people like peter navarro, it's a threat. the fbi has to be on guard. the fbi is looking for attackers from january 6th. you know, the pipe bomber that set pipe bombs outside is still at large. the fbi is still hunting for people who are participants in january 6th. so the threat is real and i think the reality is also that there are people like peter navarro who want to see it increase. >> yeah, i mean, maya, this is an extraordinary split screen. we live in had unprecedented moment where the threats are domestic, not foreign in terms of modern history. that is a normal. we live in a heightened threat of, as paul said, an american insurgency of extremist views and people willing to act on them based on the polling. but if but go down issue by issue -- and i had this conversation with former a

the very next day mike flynn and others went into the oval office for his meeting. he pleaded the sixth when he was asked about the january 6 congressional committee. another impersonate on what is known as team crazy is trolling the special counsel today, the former overstock ceo patrick burn who was in the oval office where he said, quote. and he asked smith to call him collect. joined now by a pair of former federal prosecutors, williams andally -- lipman. what could the potential charges be if there are charges that come from this meeting? what is your guess it would be conspiracy obstruction? what do you think? >> well yes and yes but it's interesting. first we know he is and even recently because giuliani comes on bended knee and can ask them anything and there's a lot of focus in two days of eight hour meetings on this meeting. i think as you say kaitlyn what precedes and post dates the meeting is important. what proceeds is they're just storming in unannounced and that's what makes team normal rush in and then we have like six hours of screaming over theorie

but we do know that he is asking questions about sidney powell, mike flynn and patrick byrne and is onn crazy . >> teen crazy, thank you so much. be sure to tune in for the official launch of the brand- new show the source with caitlin collins preparing monday at 9:00 pm eastern only here on cnn. into joining me not to discuss team normal persisting crazy, or arizona house speaker rusty powers as part of the investigation. good to speak you -- good to see you, speaker powers. 's talk about the silver office meeting. when you hear about the discussions, how does it compare with the conversations you had with trump and giuliani and other allies after the 2020 election? >> well, the good thing about time is that you pickup a lot more pieces. i have had conversations with people in it new york and washington and others who told this little piece and that little piece and this little piece confused, driven desire that, the desire to keep power has overwhelmed common sense . it is a little disconcerting. >> you, more than a little i would say . make a desperate pattern . >> you told caitlin

mike flynn theft which is up significantly that increased by 33.5% in one year.nk, certain hyundai and kia models are being stolen. is this an example of how crime can evolve and how does law enforcement stay ahead of it? >> being mindful of the trends in your area, there's always on any given year, a particular vehicle that burglars, car thieves like to target. like supply and demand. if you have chop shops and others looking for particular things. air bags are a big deal. catalytic converters were a thing that sent people to stealing cars. so you need to be mindful of the trend. >> coming up next, how so many lawmakers get rich while serving in the government. stay with us. hi, i'm sharon, and i lost 52 pounds on golo. on other diets, i could barely lose 10-15 pounds. thanks to golo, i've lost 27% of my body weit, and it was easy. (soft music) was also the first time your profits left you speechless. at the counter or on the go, save 20% with the lowest transaction fees and keep more of what you make. start saving today at godaddy.com ♪ pets are raw. raw curios

the folks who are not on it include mark meadows, sydney powell, patrick byrne, mike flynn, folks whoto continue perpetrating and investigating the big lie and who themselves might be in the crosshairs of the criminal investigation. >> absolutely stunning. lisa reuben, i will see you again, no doubt. eric, come see me again. thank you. it is their caucus and they will kick her out if they want to. why we are going to make new clarity in the saga of marjorie taylor greene and the freedom caucus. taylor greene and the freedo caucus caucus because it stinks. ♪have you tried downy rinse and refresh♪ it helps remove odors 3x better than detergent alone. it worked guys! ♪yeahhhh♪ downy rinse and refresh. (vo) consumer reports evaluates vehicles for car shoppers in... reliability, safety, owner satisfaction, ♪yeahhhh♪ and road-test evaluations... and the results are in. subaru is the twenty twenty-three best mainstream automotive brand, according to consumer reports. and subaru has seven consumer reports recommended models. solterra, forester, outback, crosstrek, ascent, impreza, and legacy.

or whether he was so enamored with the newsletters extolling of his first 100 days when he fired mike flynnrity adviser and had a muzzle ban that didn't go into effect, so i don't know what was in that. but my guess is he loved it so much he wanted to put it up there. but this is the problem with someone who doesn't think about this country and its citizens first. they do things like this, whether it's intentional or inadvertent what it shows is a lack of responsibility, accountability for what you're saying. it's like calling the special counsel a crack head. putting out a former president's address. it's rir resp it's irresponsible conduct. and what i say to everybody who says he's treated unfairly. the documents case he brought on himself by refusing to give them back after 18 months after he was canned to do it. >> all the charges suggest if he turned them over he wouldn't have been charged. >> i guarantee you as someone who did it for seven years, if at any point prior to the search he had voluntarily given them back they would have walked away. they wanted the documents back. they wer

steve bannon, mike flynn, roger stone, bernard kerik, boris epshteyn, reedy giuliani, and some were using oath keepers as secret security. what do umake of this war room piece of the investigation? >> this ain't my parents' republican party. i was raised by two republicans who told me about the values of ronald reagan. i didn't agree with them, obviously, but they were rooted in principles. when you listen, you know, to bannon and stone, it's a party of violence. it's a party of chaos. it's a party of grievances and a party that's trying to win through substraction, by taking away your rights, by taking away your freedom and your votes. that's what they're going to run the same playbook in 2024, but joy, your viewers should rest assured that the people who support that, that number is shrinking. and that since donald trump was elected in 2016, we won in '18, '20, beat expectations in '22, won the wisconsin supreme court just recently, won in jacksonville, florida. we're on a winning streak because people want competence and community over chaos. so i'm confident we're in the right directi

trump listen to what has been described as team crazy, people like sidney powell, rudy giuliani and mike flynn do we have any evidence that trump acted on any of their radical proposals at the time? >> yeah. well during the january 6 congressional investigation, we did report that some of these proposals that sidney powell and people like rudy giuliani and former new york city commissioner bernard kerik were pitching to him did ultimately make it to the oval office. there were drafts of some of the ideas and including this pitch that sidney powell described to use the military to seize voting machines. but as our sources at time and now many witnesses have said publicly, according to the january 6 committee work, these proposals never actually went anywhere. of course, it would been we could assume that jack smith's team would want to assess the full scope and extent as to how far some of the draft proposals went. who else considered them, whose other desks they reached and just how close the former president might have gone himself to trying to implement and get some of the proposals actually

his desire, andrew, since the beginning was to use doj to reward in the case of mike flynn his allies prosecute all of the mueller investigators, including yourself, jimcombe, jim mccabe was to use to it punish his political adversaries. >> absolutely. to your point, he at his advanced age has had no accountability. so he has been able to get away with that in the civil context. and so far in the criminal context. and you know, he is facing really serious charges currently. 71 felonies. that is going to be a number that increases dramatically in the next few days at the federal and state level. so he sees his salvation through a very different means than the rule of law. and to your point, that he is actually used those tools, for instance, in the mueller investigation, he proceeded to essentially pardon everyone but the people who cooperated with us. so, you know, michael cohen, rick gates, they didn't get pardons because they were cooperators. so he basically used the power of the presidency the way a mob boss would. >> and to claire's point, that's what we have to make sure we are

will it focus more exclusively on the figures at the center of this, john eastman, sidney powell, mike flynn, patrick burn the former ceo of overstock. those are the big questions and i don't think anyone has a sense. the big question is whether donald trump himself is indicted in that investigation or if he is an unindicted coconspirator or not mentioned a the all. there are so many questions. it is such a bigger, broader investigation than the documents investigation. that is why people are having a hard time kind of guessing what it is going to look like. >> of course added to all of that you have elements in arizona you've been reporting on this week as well. this is a sprawling case and we'll see where it all turns out. thank you so much for staying a little later for us. >> of course. >> speaking of january 6th a judge today ruling that a convicted rioter cannot attend the festival this weekend in missouri to honor those who stormed the capitol. kenneth thomas was convicted last month of seven crimes including assaulting an officer and i wanted to bring in now thomas's attorney john pi

mike flynn was fighting. >> you didn't get to see the president without an appointment. >> we did. >> i didn't understand how they'd gotten in. >> people shouting at each other, throwing insults at each other. >> i stayed in the cabinet room, which was kind of really cool. i liked that. all by myself. >> we were pushing back and asking one simple question. as a general matter, where is the evidence? >> now, that meeting matters because it was illicit, which is why the participants literally snuck into the white house. some of the proposals were criminal. the giuliani plan would land them in prison. and that's why this is under criminal investigation today work a new warning for trump that he's targeted for coup charges. others have gone to prison for january 6th. we know that. trump fans, militia leader testimonies apparent people at the top have not yet been held accountable. now the question is, what does it mean tonight amidst all this when special counsel jack smith sends a coup warning like this to former president trump? what does it mean? that's my first question to two veteran

six committee, how chaotic that meeting was with trump hearing wild -- from sydney powell, for mike flynng do you think this could be for trump's team? you have dave talking about the legal consequences. i even just wonder more broadly, what it tells you about his team and what they are facing? >> you know, you must earlier if there's anything that shocked me or surprises me. reports like this actually. when you talk about using the military. when you talk about using the full power of the presidency, how when you center the individual americans, individual voters in this conversation, what power do they have against a president who says that he wants to use the military to change the election? we didn't get there, but it just reminds how close we came to an utter catastrophe in this country, because one individual wanted to -- and to the point of that henchmen, and he had henchmen who helped subdue. him do it. so i don't know if this conversation actually meets a legal threshold, i'm not lawyer, so i don't know what legal value this particular conversation has. but i will say in the cour

mind, it was open, but he said the first person that would be prosecuted, the worst offender is mike flynneresting because what i've tried to do with cnn, jake, and you know this, is comment on policies or what the political leaders are doing. i've never tried to attack a sitting political leader, i'm not defending myself but certainly there were times during the previous administration andine sometimes during this administration where i've said a policy is something that is approached in a different way in the military than what a sitting president or a government official is addressing. that could be construed as taking pot shots at a political figure. it is trying to inform the american people about the way the military view things. i take the four decades that i've had in the military and say, here this is how those wearing the cloth of the country feel about this particular action. just like we're doing now. you know, i don't see any wokeness in our military. i've been honored to serve since the start of my service in a very diverse force, serving alongside all races, religions, culur

will it focus more explicitly on the figures at the center of this, john eastman, sydney powell, mike flynn, patrick byrne, who is the former ceo of overstock? there is in the big questions -- indicted in that investigation or if he's an unindicted coconspirator, or if he's not mentioned at all. and i think there are just so many questions. and it's such a bigger, broader investigation than the documents. investigation. i think that's why people are having a hard time getting what it's going to look like? >> yeah, and of course, adding to all that, you have the elements in arizona, which you have been reporting on this week as well. this is a swelling case, and we will see where it all turns out. kaitlan collins, thank you so much for staying a little bit later for us. >> of course. i think, you abby phillip. -- >> -- cannot attend a -- in missouri to honor those who stormed the capitol. kenneth thomas was convicted last month of seven crimes, including assaulting an officer. and i want to bring in now thomas's attorney, john pierce. he is the founder and chairman of the national constituti

brought, and this is completely bogus and these plans from the three stooges that are in the room, mike flynn, sydney powell and the overstock guy, patrick byrne, these plans are preposterous. you can't possibly declare martial law. you don't have the authority to have military come in and sees these voting machines. and so when you have the grown-up saying that this is what is going on, you then have trump having knowledge, and understanding what is going on, so at that point what does he do? now you have that tweet, and that is central to his state of mind. what is his intent here? these other plans didn't work. i still want to lie, i still want to cheat, i still want to steal this election so how are we going to get there? well, i'm going to come up with a new plan, let's fire at my base and inflame them and tell them even though i know that there is no election fraud, tell them there's election fraud and to be there and to stop the count. there is intent, there is motive, there is knowledge, it is a great piece of evidence for the prosecutors. and that is what they are focusing on. >> it'

side of this meeting, you had the sort of rogue advisers, sydidney powe, the overstock ceo, and mike flynnwas fraud, suggesting they should have the military seize voting machines. there was even talk of making sidney powell a special counsel. the former president allegedly calls rudy giuliani to come in and mediate this. i mean, imagine that. rudy giuliani is the voice of reason here. incredibly chaotic but critical moment in this investigation. it appears that prosecutors are looking for more information about this meeting to start to establish or to really finally establish a pattern of lies and efforts to try to overturn the election. >> because this is a meeting where the then president is watching white house lawyers make swiss cheese of all of these kind of cuckoo ideas that these outside advisers have. but put this, paula, into a broader context for us, because it seems that the special counsel is looking at a time period from a little before this, mid december until january 6th. >> exactly. what happens in >> bill barr says i looked into this and there is no fraud. you should conc

it is a serious crime if someone is -- for example, there were allegations that mike flynn was actingent of turkey when he wrote an op-ed in a newspaper in the united states suggesting it was his opinion when, in fact, it had been ghost written for him. if you were put up to it, then the public has a right to know that, that you were working as that agent, perhaps as a paid agent. if someone is lobbying on behalf of a foreign government, that should be disclosed and that can be charged as a criminal offense. i don't know there's any evidence that hunter biden has done it. i raise it because it was asked during the plea hearing about whether the government might be pursuing charges for other crimes. >> mike memoli, this plea hearing this morning was for many people something that was going to happen pretty routinely in a couple of hours. >> reporter: that's right. we were expecting this to last as long as two hours. the only question of whether it would go on longer had to do with the filing from capitol hill republicans who were seeking to call attention to the possibility there shoul

significance of revealing that even sidney powell, the craziest of team crazy, maybe that's unfair to mike flynno once that title. anyway, among the craziest of team crazy, she has no evidence. her explanation for why there isn't any is that even the judges trump appointed work, quote, corrupt. it seems this is important also. at no point are you trying to overturn his defeat that anyone on team normal or team crazy claim to have any evidence of fraud. >> that's correct. they had none, because there isn't any. the president knew that. he had been told reportedly that his own people that there was no fraud that would change the outcome of the elections by officials who investigated these wild claims and found them to be false. he knew it wasn't true. he still wanted to cling to power. team crazy, for lack of a better word, had no evidence to show him, because there was no evidence. yet, they wanted to work with him to keep power, even though he lost the election. as judge carter said in the california evidence case. >> let me read a little bit more from cnn's reporting. multiple sources are telli

. >> i think of mike flynn pleading guilty lying to fbi. and he would have had evidence that would have been in the government's possession. what is the profile of a walt who had to have been aware of sort of the contours of the investigation before the general public was, had to have been aware of where the security cameras were. the text are in the indictment of trump asking him this and that and moving things around. >> well, i think it shows the importance of when someone is charged with providing false statements or obstruction. it's not just the underlying criminal charge, it's what it means for the investigation. and in circumstances like this, why would someone lie? why would someone risk criminal exposure for the reasons that you said knowing that there could be videotapes or other information. why would they lie? and if you're an investigator, if you're deciding should i take this historic step to, for example, obtain a search warrant? not just the surveillance information, when you have an aide, someone who you believe is aware a

nobody went in and told him the opposite because the pillow person, the pardoned mike flynn.ting? >> so, a could things. regardless of what someone's opinion is -- jared kushner's opinion about what he thinks the president truly believed or didn't, is not admissible. what is going to be admissible is what facts are there. this really goes to tim's point that he's said over and over again. there are no facts. just remember to this day there are no facts. in other words, even if there were no facts then, even now there's still no facts. so at the end of the day, a criminal case is where facts and law matter. so the other point is that putting in to the grand jury people like jared kushner, everyone who was around the president, to learn what they would say is a critical part of what jack smith's job is at this point. whether their information is going to be good or bad, they need to know what these potential witnesses would say, whether they're favorable or whether they might get called as a defense witness, they want to know exactly what his story is now because if there are w

i remember interviewing mike flynn in the west wing weeks after the inauguration. nobody expected to be this. they didn't have people in place. that is completely different now. we see lists of people being drawn up to put immediately into position should trump return to power. and another thing they've learned is the importance of having people who are loyal in those positions that control the people who investigate you. who can issue subpoenas toward you. who can arrest you. who can put you in jail. who carry guns. all those places, whether it is the fbi, the department of justice, the department of homeland security, the department of defense. i think the people around trump understand how critical it is to put loyalists in those positions and absolutely try to bring them to heel and pursue the agendas. and as everybody said this afternoon, trump is not hiding at all what he plans to do. he plans to investigate joe biden. he man's to investigate his enemies. he plans to fire his enemies. it is all there in black and white and it's coming if he's reelected. >> we