i knew that in congress, even people that vehemently disagreed with mike pence liked him. ou remember when joe biden was in omaha and talking about vice president pence? he said he was a decent guy. do you remember that? and then of course the fury of the left came upon him for telling the truth about mike pence. i know that we want principal people in office and that is who mike pence is. when you think about what happened as he is in congress and the government ship -- governorship of indiana, nothing of him as vice president. i want to say to you, it is perfectly clear to me and to you, i am sure, that the best thing candidate trump ever did was pick mike pence for his running mate. best thing ever. [applause] thank god they were elected. when you think about that time, those four years, i feel like they were four years the lord gave us to do great things, you think about what he did, he was at the heart -- the president and mike pence -- at the heart of protecting our religious liberties, at the heart of defending unborn, innocent lives here and abroad, at the heart of

fast-forward to the campaign when joe biden was candidate joe biden he talked about mike pence and i congress even people that vehemently disagree with mikeen pence hugged him, ty couldn't help himself. if you remember when joe biden, candidate biden was in omaha talking about vice president pence and he said he was a decent guy, remember that? then of course all the fury of the left came upon him for o telling the truth about mike pence. i know the family leader, people with great character in office and that's exactly who mike pence is. when you think about what's happened as he was in congress, when he was in the governor ship, the great state of indiana, now think about him as vice president. vi you it say to perfectly clear to me and to you, i am short that the best thing candidate trump rated was picked mike pence for his running mate.ik [applause] best thingng ever. [laughter] thank god they were elected and went you think about that time, those four years and i feel like they were four years the lord gave us to do great things, when you think about what he did, he was at the h

and i knew that in congress even people that vehemently disagreed with the mike pence like him. they couldn't help themselves. do you remember when joe biden, candidate biden was in omaha and he was talking about vice president pence? and he said he was a decent guy. do you remember that. and then of course all the furyu of the left came upon him for telling the truth about mike pence. family leaderee. wants principled people that have great character in office. that's exactly who mike pence is. when you think about what has happened as he was in congress, when he was in the governorship of the great state of indiana, now think about him as vice president. i want to say to you, it is perfectly clear to me, and to you i am sure, that the best thing candidate trump ever did was picked mike pence for hisnn running mate, best thing ever. [applause] thank god they were elected. and when you think about that time, those four years, and i feel like they were four years that the lord gave us to do greatt things, when you think about what he did, he was at the heart, the president and mik

trump fans are getting their information from him to where they felt surprised that mike pence would do this. sondra describes the moment as a surge of injury -- a surge of energy. these get pence chance start. host: what is the relationship between the former president and the president -- and mike pence. guest: they are speaking to each other. there are multiple phone calls back and forth. i haven't spoken to mike pence about these calls. i have spoken to president trump about it and what strikes me is if you are donald trump and you believe mike pence has committed treason and was so disloyal to overturn an election, wouldn't you want some sort of apology or sort desk or some sort of resolution before you start these russians again -- before you start these conversations again question mark host: joel --? host: joel -- caller: i have a few questions for you. first of all, i'm not a trump fan. i know him personally. what he did to my family and people in atlantic city. he is a liar and cheat. i have no liking for trump. in the election itself, there are questions that have to be ans

mike pence did his job and followed the constitution. mike pence did his duty to the country. he had no powers to do anything else. and yet, donald trump to this day, and again, it gets you back to the bigger point. that's one piece of the many fictions, lies, falsehoods that donald trump continues to tell. it's another piece of this foundation of the big lie which brought those people to the capitol. the committee can -- hopefully, to your point about how do you build this now? to the chief's point, who paid for the buses? who sent the first email that was then spread to everybody? to the proud boys. to the haters, to the violent groups. the groups known to the violent and thousands of people who may have come here because they believe the big lie and some of them got caught up in something horrible. the digital footprint is critical in this relationship. mike pence from the capitol, we know he called asking for the national guard. saying i need it now. well, what were the delays? were they just normal delays? sometimes bureaucracy happens or was the president of the white ho

but talk about mike pence's role on the january 6 former president view of mike pence.estimation is his relationship with the former president? >> at this time i would say near to nonexistent. the former president seems convinced that mike pence has the power to reverse the electoral vote and he would use that power on the president's behalf and essentially install the president for a second term january 20 this was absurd and preposterous and mike pence told him i can begin or could not and would not happen but the president continues to believe that and where it did not happen, where mike pence did not, he regarded it as a profound betrayal and although there's been some minor effort to put a better face on this, the president continues to be deeply resentful about his former vice president. >> the attack on the u.s. capitol led to the second impeachment of donald trump in writing about legal efforts in the book mckusick trump was ranting to his legal team that he didn't want the trial going down this way, technicality, free speech, jurisdiction baloney, he wanted his

hours later, rioters stormed the capitol. >> hang mike pence! hang mike pence! >> bring out pence!t! >> pence had to be taken to safety and today, trump still doesn't acknowledge his role in the veevents of january 6th and continues to perpetuate the big lie, led to five americans dying there. today, 25 five days after the t free and fair election, trump putting out statements including the governor allowed this election in georgia to be rigged and stolen and quote, had the election not been rigged and stolen i would have won easily, that's what he's saying today. christian holms is "out front "livey pence spoke today. the lul tenant full of praise and going against trump's view on the vents of january 6th. >> that's right, erin. pence is really walking a tight rope here. this is a man that wants to stay politically relevant and stay in the arena. there is already speculation he'll run for president in 2024 but sees what we see, despite january 6th. despite this increased rhetoric against the election, against our democracy, the republican party is still very much a party of donald

he dauked about mike pence he talked about mike pence.t the people who he told to go to the capitol what he wanted them to do when they get there, he stumbled around it and said i wanted what they wanted. well a lot of them wanted to hang mike pence. >> an what did donald trump want ed for vice president mike pence to overturn the results, not constitutional but in trump's mind is what he thought his loyal vice president should have done. ironic trump said pence should have been a statue just following rules, for four years pence was a statue, just standing by trump's side nodding his head and not causing trouble for trump. >> i find it hard to imagine the former president restrained himself and never said to his vice president what he wanted him to do. he was saying, no, didn't tell him to do anything, kind of. >> he absolutely asked him. >> yeah. >> he absolutely asked him, multiple times. >> i want to play another clip from your interview with the former president when he talks about pence. let's watch. >> who will your vice president

let's talk about mike pence's role on that january 6 and the former president's view of mike pence since then. where in your estimation is his relationship with the former president? >> at this point i would say in the nonexistence. the former president became convinced that mike pence had the power to reverse the electoral vote. and he would in fact use that power on the president's behalf. and essentially install the president for a second term on january 20. this was absurd and preposterous. mike pence had told him again and again and again this could not happen would not happen. but the president continue to believe that. when it did not happen when mike pence did not he regarded this as a profound betrayal. although there has been some minor effort to put a better face on this unknown the president continues to be deeply resentful for the vice president. >> of course the attack on the u.s. capitol led to the second impeachment of donald trump and the legal effort in the book. you say trump was ranting to his legal team that he did not want the trial going down this way. technicaliti

trump fans are getting their information from him to where they felt surprised that mike pence would sondra describes the moment as a surge of injury -- a surge of energy. these get pence chance start. host: what is the relationship between the former president and the president -- and mike pence. guest: they are speaking to each other. there are multiple phone calls back and forth. i haven't spoken to mike pence about these calls. i have spoken to president trump about it and what strikes me is if you are donald trump and you believe mike pence has committed treason and was so disloyal to overturn an election, wouldn't you want some sort of apology or sort desk or some sort of resolution before you start these russians again -- before you start these conversations again question mark host: joel --? host: joel -- caller: i have a few questions for you. first of all, i'm not a trump fan. i know him personally. what he did to my family and people in atlantic city. he is a liar and cheat. i have no liking for trump. in the election itself, there are questions that have to be answered. w

let's talk about mike pence's role on that january 6 and the former president's view of mike pence sincehere in your estimation is his relationship with the former president? >> at this point i would say in the nonexistence. the former president became convinced that mike pence had the power to reverse the electoral vote. and he would in fact use that power on the president's behalf. and essentially install the president for a second term on january 20. this was absurd and preposterous. mike pence had told him again and again and again this could not happen would not happen. but the president continue to believe that. when it did not happen when mike pence did not he regarded this as a profound betrayal. although there has been some minor effort to put a better face on this unknown the president continues to be deeply resentful for the vice president. >> of course the attack on the u.s. capitol led to the second impeachment of donald trump and the legal effort in the book. you say trump was ranting to his legal team that he did not want the trial going down this way. technicalities, free

in terms of -- let's talk about mike pence sen. hirono: on the january 6 -- andy -- about mike pence on that january 6 -- where is his relationship with the former president? guest: at this point i would say it is near to nonexistent. the former president became convinced that mike pence had the power to reverse the electoral vote, and that he would in fact use that power on the president's behalf. and essentially install the president for a second term on january 20. this was absurd and preposterous , and mike pence had told him again and again and again that this could not happen and would not happen. but the president continued to believe that. and when it did not happen, when mike pence did not do this, he was regarded as a profound betrayal. and although there has been some minor effort to put a better face on this, the president continues to be deeply resentful about his former vice president. host: the attack on the u.s. capitol live to the second impeachment of donald trump. you said that trump was ranting to his legal team

but would he keep mike pence on his ticket? fix it". >>> plus transportation secretary pete buttigieg will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. re watching" we'll be right back. there's an america we build and one we explore. one that's been paved and one that's forever wild. but freedom means you don't have to choose just one adventure. you get both. introducing the wildly civilized all-new 3-row jeep grand cherokee l introducing the wildly civilized before discovering nexium 24hr to treat her frequent heartburn... claire could only imagine enjoying chocolate cake. now, she can have her cake and eat it too. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? the instant air purifier removes 99.9% of the virus that causes covid-19 from treated air. so you can breathe easier, knowing that you and your family have added protection. ♪ ♪ here are the two battling to the line knowing that you and your fam and allyson felix...tion. simone

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. >> if mike pence had the courage to send it back to legislature you would have a different outcome in my opinion. >> is that what you told him to do? >> i didn't tell him to do anything. >> what did you want him to do? >> i thought that the election was rigged. i think that when you have more votes than you have voters, i think that -- the vice president of the united states must protect the constitution of the united states, right? and it says very, very clearly protect the constitution of the united states. i don't believe he's just supposed to be a statue who gets these votes from the states and

his own aides when it turned out they had discussed that and the president's son-in-law had asked mike pence thathe hire. it's important to forget to january 6 when trump repeatedly asked pence to overturn the election, the fair and free election. pence and his team that they had been very clear with trump he did not have that report authority. my reporting maybe it wasn't so clear. when he told him no that was nested in a bunch of maybes. one line i have in the bookk aside don't think i have the authority to do this. but whatever your legal team comes up with i will take a look at. the president hears that second part. when interviewed dropped a couple of times out of mar-a-lago after the presidency told me pence had never told him no. that may or may not be rights but that isnt certainly what trump came away with. >> is going to ask you this earlier. you interviewed the president. he calmly assume he is okay with people talking to reporters since he talks to reporters. >> he's not okay with people talking to reporters. he wants to be a cheap that's sure. hesu had me down because he wants t

it falls to mike pence in a meeting in the summer of 2020 that it's basically over.o rick scott, who was also talked about as a 2024 contender. he tells trump that desantis is trying to knock her out in order to take a step ahead of rick scott, and not surprisingly, it sort of sits well with trump. he understands it. but calls desantis. he says, what's going on, i want suzie back. desantis tells him suzie whields is basically a bat boy on his team, and this is what really infuriates trump. trump wants to make the decision here, and in a heated oval office phone call, trump tells desantis, this is my decision, stay out of it. >> yeah. suzie wilds is a name that some of our viewers may know her name. for those that don't, she, as you point out, is an extraordinarily important wired in operative in florida and haas been for so long and has been such a critical part of the presidential landscape and map. it's very telling. >> she ran rick scots campaign in 2010 when he was an insider. she came in and saved desantis's campaign when he was behind the polls. she won florida

at 2:24 the president tweeted, mike pence didn't have the courage to do what was needed. is mike okay the president asked an aide. the secretary service has him under control, kellogg told trump. karen is there with the daughter. oh, trump asked. they're going to stay there until this gets sorted out kellogg said. trump said nothing more. he didn't express any hope that pence was okay. he didn't try to call the vice president to check on him. he just stayed in the dining room watching television. we should note this account has not been independently confirmed by nbc news. let's bring in host and executive producer of showtime's "the circus" john heileman. new york times reporter michael schmidt. and kasie hunt joins us as well. kasie we heard your announcement this morning. i've known about it, i'm practicing some radical acceptance right now and it is not working. i've been with you on this journey. so it's dialectal. i can't accept it but i'm really proud of you. john heileman i'll go to you first. the quotes from the book and the lack of any care for his vice president

that's why i said just a moment ago, i wish mike pence had pushed back a little more. then again, you know, he wouldn't be renominated in 2020, and that's the risk he was pushing. and with barr, he runs the risk of being fired. that was sort of the moral of the story in a lot of ways about the trump administration, is that people were more concerned about their jobs than about principle and about pushing back on the president, about doing the right thing. and that's one of the reasons why we are where we are today. >> so, i wonder what you think about mike pompeo's portrayal here. he certainly would fit into the category. this book reveals he warned colleagues, quote, the crazies have taken over as trump's fraud conspiracy theories were growing after the election. >> that's really nice that he thought that and he said that privately. why didn't he go -- come here, go onto fox and say that? why? and we're all hearing it now. oh, the crazies were there. there was nobody there to push back. it's terrible. look, it's rudy giuliani's fault. well, you could have said somethi

oh, mike pence? we're coming for you too, [ bleep ] traitor! >> hang mike pence! hang mike pence! >> reporter: sergeant aquilino gonnell, who also served in iraq, first to testify. >> on january 6th, for the first time, i was more afraid to work at the capitol than in my entire deployment in iraq. >> reporter: the sergeant thought he was going to die. crushed by the mob, sprayed by chemicals. >> i arrived at home at nearly 4:00 a.m. on january 7th. i had to push my wife away from me because she wanted to hug me and i told her no, because of all the chemicals that my uniform had on. i'm sorry. >> reporter: then officer michael fanone. >> i was dragged from the line of officers and into the crowd. i heard someone scream, "i got one!" as i was swarmed by a violent mob, they ripped off my badge, they grabbed and stripped me of my radio, they seized ammunition that was secured to my body. they began to beat me with their fists and with what felt like hard metal objects. i heard chanting from some in the crowd, "get his gun. and kill him with his own gun." i thought of my four daughters

it's like with mike pence. mike pence tells him he's not going to do it, he's not going to do it but the president is still coming back saying you're going to do it, you're going to do it. he believes in the power of his own voice, the singular power. >> he also must know people around him will speak and are speaking to you and other reporters, so he wants to get in on that. he knows people are not loyal around him in terms of silence around him. >> it's almost -- it's really difficult to understand because in addition to that when i spoke to many people and they say, oh, well, you know, and i said the president -- i've spoken to the president. and they said, okay, let me check with the president. and then the president would say oh, yeah, talk to him. then they'd say these horrible things about the president. so this is a disconnect at so many levels. >> some of your sourcings come under criticism in the past. there was an excerpt. liz harrington who's a new spokesperson for donald trump tweeted, quote, all th

they asked him about mike pence and what he actually wanted mike pence to do on january 6th. >> i alwaysry adisappointed and so were a lot of republicans. very disappointed. because had is he sent them back, which took courage, but not a lot of courage, what courage would have been is to do what thomas jefferson does, did. he could have done that, too. but that would have been politically unacceptable. but sending it back to these legislatures, who now know that bad things happened, would have been very accepted. and i think, i could show youeters from legislatures, big scale letters from different states, states we're talking about, had he done that, i think it would have been -- i think it would have been a great thing for our country. i think it would have been a great thing for our country. and so it is -- >> i mean, tolluse, he expected this? >> it seems so. and we talk about the alternate reality that he lives in. it seems like since leaving the white house and going down to mar-a-lago and his private clubs he's cocooned himself from the career officials an those that could brief h

and they have, you know, pictures of a hangman's noose with mike pence on it. i guess my question is on one hand that seems scary. on the other hand, maybe democrats, this is a good side show and then you kind of look at the country in the independence or out there say, let the media are alive. wow. well, there's a lot there. i think one key thing to keep in mind is that and so linda alluded to this very, very reliably, the party that holds the president, the loses seats in mid term elections. right? there has only been 2 exceptions in the last 90 years. so for our audience, just lemetre up. so for our audience, mid term elections, we're talking about is 2022 next year. so just wanted to punctuate that point. go ahead. absolutely, and i think what's critical to know then is yeah, the democrats go into this election facing headwind having to defend senate seats in traditionally republican places like arizona in georgia. and at the same time yeah, clinging to a very, very narrow house. majority right now. and facing the prospect of redistricting. that could alone

but it does not sound like mike pence has a role in any trump campaign sequel. un with pence again? >> i'm not locked into anything. i was very disappointed and so were a lot of republicans, very disappointed. what courage would have been is to what thomas jefferson does, did, take the votes. but that would have been politically unacceptable. but sending it back to the legislatures, who now know that bad things happen, would have been very acceptable. >> that venting you heard there at pence, part of a conversation trump had with journalist carol running and philip rucker for their new book "i alone can fix it." carol is with us now. he's wrong about the history of thomas jefferson, but we won't go back to the election of 1800. i'm just fascinated. we'll get to some of the details of the book which are riveting. you're sitting across from donald trump and you see the anger, the frustration, still, this is four months after january 6th, when you sit down with him at mike pence. what is that like? >> you know, donald trump is an amazing personality because when we

at the time it was as mike pence said or as mike bender reported, mike pence and his team were tryingndowski on the payroll as essentially a favor to the former president. so i have also not independently confirmed that scene in the oval office but do know that what mike pence's reported in that book is what happened. >> josh dawsey, always great to have you on. appreciate your time. thank you. >>> coming up, president biden met with leaders of national civil rights groups to talk about how to safeguard the right to vote. we're taking you inside that meeting with somebody who was there live after the break. [♪♪] if you have diabetes, it's important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. try boost glucose control. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost today. there's an america we build and one we explore. one that's been paved and one that's forever wild. but freedom means you don't have to choose just one adventure. you get both. introducing the wildly civili

i have not spoke to mike pence about these calls. i have spoken with president trump about it. what strikes me is that it you are donald trump and you believe mike pence has effectively committed treason and was so disloyal to overturn an election or to turn an election against you, wouldn't you want some sort of apology? or some sort of resolution before you start these conversations again? but he told me was they just don't talk about it. >> host: will go to joe in somerset, new jersey. joe republican line hi there. >> good morning hi there gentleman. i have a few questions for you. first i am j not a trump fan. i know him personally. my grandmother and him and what he did to my family and people in atlantic city for he is a liar and a cheat. i have no liking for trump. but in the election itself there are questions that have to be answered. when you hear it's a big lie, it's a big lie.y that's not a big lie. they are all questions that have never been answered we also with their own two eyes. let's go to philadelphia number one right off thehe bat. number one my mother in th

in fact vice president mike pence would be held in a secure location underground at the capital. it felt like those on the phone with the pentagon and on the phone with congressional leaders and urging that swift response and acting as the commander-in-chief and that is because according to the reporting he was back at the white house and the private dining room watching it all unfold on television but not actually doing his duty as the president and as the commander-in-chief to respond in any way in the hours you have a president completely missing and the vice president filling in the gap and the pentagon's senior leader chris miller the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and others were responding and taking orders and in close contact with speaker pelosi and senator schumer, mitch mcconnell and other congressional leaders to sort of strategize and understand what was happening and they didn't really care what he had to say because the resident said nothing. >> what you just said, let's not just let it pass by. that's an extraordinary statement from the acting defense secre

people were chanting, hang mike pence, all around him and it was vice president pence who is callingd who was saying get these troops here now and get this building under secure. get this building cleared out of these rioters and importantly he refused to be evacuated from the capital because the vice president thought it was essential for the american people that he remain in the capital to do his job and certify the election whenever the senate and the house could reconvene. it's a chilling bit of reporting it speaks to how little trump did in that moment. he effectively melted away. >> carol, let me ask you another question about process. there's so many people floating around washington who want a little dose of -- geography. they won't distinctive working for trump off of there otherwise stellar resume's. and some of them are vaunted people. esper barr milley pence for that matter, ivanka and jared. when an author comes along, how do you guard against becoming their resume burnish-ing tool in the scope of a massive project that you two were involved in? >> i'm really glad you as

people like that mob who were chanting "hang mike pence," he wants power very, very badly. out a way to do it by appeasing everyone. it's comical to watch from the outside because in some ways it's kind of sad. this is someone who clearly is not a trump republican in the sense that he put in a whole lot of years of loyal service, and in the end the president turned on him and so did the mob. now he wants the former president and the mob to support him and somehow find his way into the white house. it seems like a very, very far stretch i think we can expect more strange speeches like the one we saw yesterday. >> republican leader kevin mccarthy visited with former president trump again this week. this time at bedminster. here is what he told fox news about what they discussed. >> these were some of the actual discussions i had with president trump, talking about the border, talking about our success in the last election, talking about our first six months in fund-raising. and we've talked about you a little bit, too, sean. and that was all good. >> okay. you didn't -- well,

. >> and when you talk about the republicans who could stand up to this, mike pence comes to mind, the former vice president. when he's out there, the former vice president who is a loyalist to trump who was originally on the ticket, in order to try and shore up that conservative base that former president trump clearly no longer needs mike pence for, he's getting booed at events. they're shouting him down. you have republicans like adam kinzinger who it is unclear what his political future will be as a result of this. so you talk about the next election. it really will crystallize what direction also the republican party is going and who they're listening to. >> one of the questions heading into the election is will we have the report of the new select committee? let's bring in the chairman of the house homeland security committee. bennie thompson. mr. chairman, grateful for your time today. when you listen as you did right there to the former president over the weekend doubling down, tripling down, i don't know what to call it, on the big lie in the context of your investigation, do

oh, mike pence?we're coming for you [ bleep ]ing traitor. >> they got the gallows set up outside the capitol building. it's time to start using them. >> start making a list, and we start hunting them down one by one. >> that's what we need to have, 30,000 guns. next trip. >>> he'll be back, he warns us, is just chilling. i thank god for our democracy and our republic. what stood this assault. but that man's warning reminds us that this threat hasn't gone away. it looms over our democracy like a dark cloud. some people are trying to deny what happened, to whitewash, to turn the insurrectionists into martyrs, but the whole world saw the reality of what happened on january 6th. the gallows sitting out there on our nation's mall. the flag of that first failed and disgraced rebellion against our union being paraded through the capitol. the hatred. the bigotry, the violence. and all of it for a vile, vile lie. let's be clear, the rioters who tried to rob us of our democracy were propelled here by a lie. as

. >> the biggest enemy to the maga world is mike pence.e pence was one of the most faithful people to donald trump. but if you turn an ounce against donald trump, your out of the tribe. >> talk about this purging of moderate republicans from the ranks of the modern republican party. what does that mean for the future of the party? >> yeah. what i think about first when i think about the republicans trying to purge the moderates, is that that's not their strong suit. when it purges all of the moderate members, that creates more independents and democrat voters. they can defeat the extremists or make sure the other party wins. it's easy. the republican party can't grow or evolve without being more inclusive, including mike pence. we're never going to get back to being a big tent party. pro anti-choice. now, it's just pro anti-trump, period. my question, kind of around all of this, is why are they so focused on fighting within the party right now. we're facing so many things. climate change, the pandemic, and we're arguing about who is more r

and which he reviews his thinking of mike pence on january 6th. >> rudy actually did a very good jobatures, you know when he went before -- had mike pence had the courage to send it back to the left legislatures you would've had a different outcome in my opinion. >> is that when you told him to do, the vice president? >> i didn't tell him to do -- identities to do anything. >> what is -- what did you want him to? do >> i thought the election was rigged. >> more of the same, back with us tonight eugene robinson pulitzer prize-winning columnist from the washington post, you got a laugh eugene, and mark kellan former advisor george w. bush. he is of course among the cohost of the circus on showtime. gentlemen welcome back. eugene i'm told went on fox news tonight and impounded this theme that it's all about pelosi not providing enough security. you just saw. him in an olympic piece of gaslighting saying it was the democrats who put the capital police at risk. eugene, am i missing anything deeper here or does mccarthy pretty much take orders from trump and other -- and are the republican

mike pence is a polite man and thought he was being respectful. trump hearing the second part. i interviewed president trump and asked him if pence had ever told him he wasn't going to overturn the election, trump told me no, he hadn't. >> wow. mike pence may be polite, it doesn't make him any less culpable in all this that happened. michael, i have to ask you, the other michael. make this make sense. i'm petty enough to say 8,000 more times, we tried to tell you. now that other people seem to have caught on, why are republicans still beholden to this crazy person? he's mental. >> yeah, you know, they picked up 11, 12 house seats and they drew the senate to a draw and their position to take the house and the senate next year. where is the downside? michael and his great reporting and incredible book has laid out the narrative. we saw it realtime and now we can connect a lot of dots behind the scene and there was no accountability. who was accountable for the last four years, five years? who's been accountable for that? there was no penalty paid by republicans. until there is, t

he writes, mike pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our countrytime pence and his family are being taken to safety along with an aide who's carrying the country's nuclear launch equipment. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> at 2:25 p.m. there's another major breach on the opposite side of the building, the east side. rioters have been battling a handful of officers at these doors for almost half an hour. the tide turns when rioters who came through the crypt reached through the doors and pulled them open. then an active duty marine officer keeps the door open for the mob to flood in. >> dude, you can't touch that. we are one of you. we are one of you. come on, americans. >> that went on for several more hours resulting in injuries to more than 150 police officers. the deaths. you can understand a few of those deaths much better from the video as well. six months later we are still learning about what happened that day and it is for that reason it is so important to have an investigation, a full one. today we learned the names of the eight members that house speaker nancy p

they failed to protect mike pence from donald trump. i want to read more about mike pence's experience on january 6th. they go on to record at 2:26 p.m. after a team of agents scouted a safe path to ensure the pences would not encounter trouble, giebels, their top secret service agent, and the rest of pence's detail guided them down the staircase to a secure subterranean area rioters couldn't reach where his armored limousine awaited. he asked pence to get into one of the vehicles. we can hold here, he said. i'm not getting in the car, tim, pence replied. i trust you, tim. but you're not driving the car. if i get in that vehicle, you guys are taking off. i'm not getting in that car. the pences made their way to a secure underground area to wait out the riot. pence feared a conspiracy, feared that the secret service would aid trump and his ultimate aims that day. this is the most harrowing version of mike pence's day i've seen reported. >> nicolle, this is typical of a dictatorship of an authoritarian anti-democratic regime. this is not

people were channelling hang mike pence all around him and it was vice president pence who was callingho was saying get these troops here now. get these buildings under secure. get this building cleared out of these rioters. and importantly, he refused to be evacuated from the capitol because the vice president thought it was essential for the american people that he remain in the capitol to do his job, to certify election whenever the senate and the house could reconvene. it is a chilling bit of reporting and it speaks to how little president trump did in that moment. effectively melted away. >> carol, let me ask you a final question about process. there are so many people floating around washington who want a little dose, who want a chance to get the stink of having worked for trump off their otherwise stellar resumes. and some of them are vaunted people. esper, barr, milley, pence, e-ivanka and jared. so an offer comes along and how do you guard against becoming their resume burnishing tool in the scope of a massive project you two are involved in. >> i'm really glad you asked that

and oath keepers, and inside that was the coup donald trump was trying to orchestrate targeting mike pence. all they wanted pence to do was to rebuff the electors coming in from arizona, georgia and pennsylvania, lowering biden below 270, kicking it into a contingent election. there we voted it because we vote not one member, one vote, but one state, one vote. if they had been able to do that, which would not have been that much if you look at the different things mike pence did over the prior four years for trump, they would have won it with 27 states to 22 for the democrats and one tied. at that point he probably would have followed the advice of michael flynn and imposed martial law and a state of siege. this would have been the reichstag moment, basically declaring, look, the democrats can't control all of the chaos and insurrection that trump unleashed against us. so the way i see it, chris, is january 6th was not the end of something, unfortunately. it was the beginning of something, and we have to get very serious about domestic violent extremism and their friends in the republican

i don't think the president took a newspaper, threw it at mike pence who supposedly took it and threw i don't think that ever transpired. i talked to the president. he put a statement out dissuading that story. people want to sell books. there's a lot of money in selling books. i've written a couple new york times best sellers. there's real money in books. howie: i don't know whether that particular incident is true or not. that's what's in the book. i agree with the former president that the media never really gave him full credit for creating and carrying out operation warp speed. why don't he help complete this you achievement by pushing more forcefully for many unvaccinated americans, many of whom support him, to go out and get the shots? >> look, the president has taken the shot himself. he leads by example. i don't know what more he can do. it's not exactly like the biden administration is asking the president to come out and sit down at the white house. even if he did, i don't know if president trump would do that. howie: he can do that on his own. he doesn't need to wait for j

it was something that was kind of fascinating to watch when you were reporting on mike pence and reportingtionship, and he was normally very deferential to the president. that was the attitude you had to take to survive even though pence we joked was the one person heb could not fire. there were points oh tension between them at time. and this was something that was common. the president would see the coverage of something he didn't like. even though he was involved in it, he would deflect blame to other people. you look at books about the president one way. this former president tells us every day he wants to come back. tells some people he's reintated next month. this is why there are important things in the book about the president's conduct during the insurrection. it's written initially mr. trump seemed to be enjoyed the melee, heartened to see people supporting him in public. he ignored the pleas from those who begged him to quell the riots. he wants to be the leader of the republican party. he talks about still coming back, either running in 2024 or being reinstated. seemed to be en