mike pence but the secret service officers themselves. this was a perilous moment in american history. this issue of treason you mentioned came up yesterday in court at steward rhodes'sious conspiracy sentencing hearing. the judge reflected on some of the history you referenced that seditious conspiracy was a statute or a code created in the civil war era to be a crime less than treason, but still a crime that involves conspiring against your nation. this is a deliberately less than treason is crime, the judge said, through the design of the criminal code. that is why these questions about treason may not be germane to january 6 in this conversation. host: let me hang on treason and seditious conspiracy. charlie savage writing in the new york times, longtime new york times reporter, htakes up these issues with history. you mentioned seditious conspiracy. a section in the u.s. code, the law makes it a climb for two or more people actively plot to overthrow the government, to unlawfully seize federal property, to hinder the execution of any law of the united states. seditious conspiracy. we go to treason. he takes up this question is this different from treason? as a m