in rural pennsylvania chris wants to meet mike ritz he's a former u.s. army interrogator and now works as a consultant for the government. but he hasn't lost his old skills. but there are a few people who know more about music torture than he does like hey chris cerf our yeah. i love trying to understand a little bit better about how music is used in interrogation the event name of the game here is to create some dependency of that prisoner on the interrogator you want a prisoner dependent on the interrogator and the more you can isolate that person the better you're going to be able to do that and sound is in isolation you know appear whereas you know you saw in a lot of reports of guantanamo bay and staff other things like mittens so that there's no tactile oh i see or goggles they can't see or hoods you know these are all designed to isolate the individual and sound is another way of doing so just having so much sound that you can experience any other sound of her actually on. so you make any of yourself think right so for that point of view just it's