that honor goes to mike ross of arkansas. he joins us from little rock.s for joining us. you are one of the conservative blue dog democrats. one of the things you've raised questions about is this so-called public option to compete with private insurance plans. the secretary of health kathleen sebelius was here earlier. she said the president will seek opposition and choice but not necessarily a robust public option. let's listen. >> i'm convinced at the end of the day the plan will have both of those, but that is not the essential element. >> not the essential element, a robust public option. i assume that is good news from a conservative democratic standpoint, but when you come back from washington, do you think you and the president can sell that to speaker pelosi and more liberal democrats? >> well, john, i think at the end of the day there is going to have some common ground here. the reality is it takes 60% to get this done in the senate. it's probably going to have to be bipartisan in the senate, which i think it should be, so i know a lot of membe

that said, they voted 86% for mike ross. so that is really what you see a lot of the conservative blue dog democrats doing. when you talk with sources and democratic leadership, this annoys them what they say is -- not mike ross, because he has been in congress for some time, some of the freshman blue dog democrats who are trying to distance themselves, they say what's up for that? it is president obama who was up for election that really got them elected, bringing so many democrats out. that shows you a little sniping and infighting. if they were skeptical to begin with before they went home for august, fighting the administration on this, trying to change that, if that was their mood before they went home, is there any wear they're going to come back more inclined to support the president or speaker pelosi? >> it's a big question mark. i think mike ross may have been surprised about how much push back he got. people were not rude to him, but there was a lot of upset. he kept repeating, i'm not sure i'm going to vote for th

brianna keilar report. >> reporter: congressman mike ross' town hall meeting got off to a loud start, but it wasn't a protest. it was a standing ovation. many of ross' constituents are pleased he and other fiscally conservative democrats forced democratic leaders to pare down the proposal price tag and delay a full house vote until september. ross scored points by distancing himself from leaders in washington. >> i led an effort and stood up to president obama and to speaker pelosi and we won. delaying any floor vote on health care reform until september at the earliest. >> reporter: like their congressman, these arkansasians are concerned about the cost of the bill. >> this bill will raise the deficit $65 billion. >> if health care adds a dime to the national debt, i'm voting no. >> reporter: constituents asked pointed questions. >> my family has lied here -- >> shut up -- >> as supporters of the democrats scared off against opponents, ross played refuse remore than once. >> you all leave him alone. >> reporter: a lot of people were happy with what they heard. there were a couple of

the rnc is running this radio ad in his district. >> mike ross did exactly what nancy pelosi wanted him to do. >> he caved in, he buckled. >> reporter: feeling the squeeze, ross says he's right where his constituents want him to be. >> it's rare that you get both the extreme right and extreme left mad at you all at the same time. that tells me that maybe we've found the right balance here. >> reporter: the balance, he tells more 6,000 people on a telephone town hall is simple. slow down and do it right. >> we've been trying to get this done since harry truman. >> reporter: an hour and a half on the phone, no outbursts. his next health care event, answering questions face to face. >> say a prayer for me tonight for my town hall meeting. >> reporter: and speaking of arkadelphia. what are they saying about his prominent role in the health care debate? >> reporter: there are mixed reviews, betty, some are supportive thinking he is striking the right balance. we spoke with folks who are not in favor of the democrat health care reform push. he says he's a fence sitter and not making up his mi

mike ross is this democrat in a conservative district.le the health care issue. >> hope, arkansas, the home town of the last president who tried to reform health care and of congressman, mike ross, a prominent member of the conservative blue dog democrats. ask folks here and they will tell you tirks not easy being mike ross. >> he is in the hot spot. >> reporter: concerned the house of representatives was rushing health care reform and that it cost too much, ross and other blue dogs forced democratic leaders to pair down their bill and lay a full house bill until september, something he points out to constituents. >> i am the guy that led the charge in standing up and stopping this thing from a floor vote before august 1st. >> reporter: that put him at odds with much of the liberal democrats. the rnc is running this radio ad in had his district. >> mike ross did exactly what nancy pelosi wanted him to do. he caved in and buckled. >> reporter: he says he is right where his constituents want him to be. >> it is rare you get the extreme righ

what do they think about mike ross and health care reform? >> it's a really interesting question to ask here because it is such a politically interesting area. it is pretty conservative but party affiliation takes a back seat here. in the 2008 election, 58% of the voters in this district voted for john mccain and yet mike ross, a democrat, ran unopposed by 86% of the vote. there is mixed reviews. i spoke with a couple of people who said they consider mike ross to be a fence sitter. i spoke with someone who said, he is certainly stuck between a rock and a hard place. that certainly is the case. we are waiting to see what happens today at this round table. tomorrow, he has also got a town hall meeting. we are expecting somewhere in the neighborhood of 900 people to be at that town hall meeting tomorrow. >> let's turn it over to ali velshi. he is working his way through missouri and talking health care reform and the economy. no politicians, no shouting, just real people. town hall style. i guess you could say ali style. are you having fun? >> r

and that, of course, is where we are today, awaiting congressman mike ross' town hall meeting and take place in this auditorium behind me here at henderson state university. this auditorium seats about 960 people. congressman ross told me he's not expecting that many people will come, but we'll see, tony, i think it will be interesting to see how many seats are full. >> pray for me at the town hall meeting. brianna, what is he expecting? >> well, you know, he said that this is going to be his 37th town hall meeting on health care since april. so, he's given a lot of these town hall events and he's point out over and over that only one of them have turned rowdy and turned disruptive. certainly the folks here at henderson state university are prepared. they put signs up out of the auditorium saying no banners and no signs allowed inside and if people want to protest with signs, they'll have them outside here, at least that's the plan. we don't exactly know, but there are a lot of people, tony. i think with some of these bigger events we see some of the folks that are really upset finding

the rnc is running this radio ad. >> mike ross did exactly what nancy pelosi wanted him to do. >> willed in, he buckled. >> reporter: feeling the squeeze, ross says he's where his constituents want him to be. >> it's rare to get the extreme right and left mad at you at the same time. that tells me maybe we've found the right balance here. >> reporter: the balance, he tells more than 6,000 people on a telephone town hall is simple -- slow down, get it right. >> we've been trying to get it done since harry truman. >> reporter: an hour and a half on the phone, no outbursts. the next one, taking questions face-to-face. that's what we're waiting for here today. mike ross will hold that town hall meeting at henderson state college this afternoon. the capacity, john, of the room where he'll be holding this -- 900 people, although the congressman tells me, he doesn't expect that many people will come. we'll see, john. >> if, as he says, brianna, both sides are angry at him, that could make for an interesting town hall today. my goodness. >> definitely. we're going to watch for that. we're goin

it started with a standing ovation as soon as congressman mike ross was introduced.e, of course, is a prominent blue-dog democrat, a fiscally conservative democrat. he and other blue dogs forced house democratic leaders to postpone a vote on the health care reform proposal until after congress comes back in september. that said, he also support miss of the things in this health care reform push. but talking with some of the constituents, those who are for this health care reform push, those who are against it, they say that they think congressman mike ross is really doing right by them. there's about 700 people at this event. we were able to speak with about a dozen of them going into the meeting. some of them are concerned that this is tantamount to a government takeover. some say health care reform can't come soon enough and they support the democrats' push. all of them, wolf, we spoke with said that the health care system is not well and they stand behind mike ross. they're very supportive of what he's done so far. >> and i think we have a little clip of another e

we're talking about congressman mike ross. he's one of those blue-dog conservative democrats with a conservative district. he's a prime player, though, in the reform battle and he's getting an earful at a gathering today. let's go to cnn's congressional correspondent brianna keilar. she's in texarkana, texas, i take it on the board we are arkansas. what exactly is going on, brianna? >> reporter: congressman mike ross just told this roundtable of health care professionals, wolf, that he must be doing something right because he has the extremes from both parties upset with him. he, of course, is a blue-dog democrat, the head of the blue-dog democrats, and he is one of the blue dogs who stood up to house democratic leaders right before recess and said just wait a minute. we are not going to arow you to move this health care reform bill out of a key committee unless you give us some of the things that we want. a couple of those things that they got, one, delaying a vote before the full house on health care until after the recess,

and, you know, at that town forum, when mike ross was, that you just played, the questioner was right and ross was wrong. obama wants a single-pair system. he said it in a speech in san francisco. he just said we can't pass it right away. so what we need to do is have a public company that's subsidized and compete with private companies that are not, drive them out of business, and then we'll have a single-payer system. but it's his goal. that's what he wants. same thing we have in canada and britain. group but you're talking about the substantive questions. -- greta: but you're talking about the substantive questions. but the thing that's upsetting to me is the voters are upset because they don't understand. there's a good reason they don't understand. because no one understands these 1100 pages and they're simply questioning their government, their representatives, and then they're being insulted by the white house and even asking for emails as to who they might be. >> sure. greta: this is not a give and a take in a debate. this is really -- this is insulting. >> and they're emotion

congressman mike ross of arkansas. leader of the blue dogs in the house.nding a guarantee that reform will not add to the deficit. i'm guessing you just forgot to demand that about, say, iraq. you're a democrat you say, congressman. you saw what sandy barham said? she is 62 years old with a bad heart and is hoping her valves hold together for three more years until medicaid kicks in because she can't afford insurance. not just for herself, mind you. for her employees, too. she needs the public option. so do those six people who work at that restaurant of hers, congressman ross. and why should you give a crap? because sandy's restaurant is the broadway railroad cafe and it is at 123 west first street north in prescott, arkansas. prescott, arkansas, congressman ross. your hometown. you are sandy's congressman. hers, sir, not blue cross and blue shield's even if they insure 75% of the state and they own you. the top donor so far to congressman ross's bid for re-election next year? the blue dog pac, ten thousand bucks. something called invicare, 7300. they mak

. >> democrat mike ross of arkansas told reportedders democrats should not pass any law without bipartisan support. emanuel rereed said democrats may have to start from scratch. >> there is a need to hit the reset button, because i don't think what we are screwing now is of any value -- what we are discussing now is of any value to the american public if we come up with a plan, it will increase the partisanship that is doing enormous damage to the nation. >> bottom line, democrats say they and the president need a better sales pitch. >> we have to do it better, a better job of selling what we're doing. we're not doing as good of a job, frankly, as we should. >> on the topic of the public option, the government-financed health insurance plan, nancy pell lows pelosi says, quote, there is no way i can pass a bill in the house of representatives without a public option. meanwhile, andy stern, head of the service international employees union said if democrats don't pass it this year, they could lose control of congress next year. the white house declined to comment on this dire prediction. bre

mike ross is essentially the leader of the blue dogs, correct? >> yes. >> okay.ing up was essential to get that piece of legislation. so congressman boyd is saying i'm not even in the favor of what was put forth by the blue dogs, correct? >> yes. >> okay. i wanted to clear up that. so clearly the representative is under a loet of pressure. is there any version of health care reform that he will support? >> he did say he believes the co-op is a better option to the public option so it's something he can lead toward. he made it clear in the meeting that it's very important to help bring down costs and cover the uninsured. so he wants bills, just not those bills. >> it gets confusing. >>> senator arlen specter held a town hall meeting earlier in philadelphia. he says is anger at some of the meetings is corrected at partisan meetings. >> i have favored a public option. i believe that the president has to make the evaluation as a matter of leadership as to what the administration wants to do. there's an alternative to the public option by having co-ops and i think the

america, and speaking of kids, this is a story going around that arkansas democrat representative mike rossnd vick snyder held a healthcare town hall yesterday at the arkansas children's hospital. some say i'm not saying that this didn't happen, but unfortunately we called and it did happen but some say it was a way to avoid getting yelled at. did that work out at all? >> i do not support a single-payer system. we are not interested are in a single-payer system. we don't support a single-payer system. >> that's what obama wants. >> no, it's not what president obama wants. shhh. there are sick children upstairs. the arkansas crowd mocked lawmakers over the obama health plan. that sums it up. we spoke to congressman snyder and wanted to find owdz, did you really try to get away from people? i could see him being surrounded by sick children going shhh, keep it down, they're sick. he says the meeting was set up last friday and they chose the location because they knew the people at the hospital and knew they could arrange it at the last minute and as you can see, it didn't really stop anybody f

blue dog democrat from arkansas, mike ross, sums it up so far. >> i have got the extreme right saying, health care reform, the extreme left saying that i got too much in the agreement. that i have watered down health care reform. and so, you know, it's rare that you get both the extreme right and extreme left mad at you at the same time. that tells me that, maybe we have, we have, found the right balance here. >> yeah. you know. i believe i'm in the middle. i believe that's where the majority of the american people are. >>> all right. before we go. i want to remind you. president obama will be hosting his third townhall meeting of this week. he is going to be in colorado. that is going to be happening in the 6:00 p.m. live hour. cnn will be bringing that to you from colorado at that point. melissa long is going to be joining us now. taking over, the 4:00 hour. getting to your questions. you heard what so many of your country people have had to say about health care reform about their representatives and the president. we'll be talking about your questions with melissa long. taking us

mike ross? caller: no, sir -- yes, sir. host: one of the blue dog democrats?did not mean to interrupt. caller: i asked him about illegal immigration, i asked him about the part of the constitution that says a child born of an illegal immigrant here in the united states is already a citizen. i don't believe that -- never got a response from him. host: in your comments based on an op ed this morning on "usa today." by speaker pelosi and majority leader steny hoyer, un-american attacks cannot derail health debate. missouri -- agrees it is american. caller: i do not agree it is un-american. i am against the government health care plan -- it did not work in england or canada or the two states it has been tried here. i believe people -- reason why people like getting a little heated at these events is because congress is trying to push it through before the august break so they felt the need to really go out and strongly oppose it. they are going to require an hour of counseling for the elderly, 80 or above, to say you can kill yourself. they are going to require co

ross. >> mike, i love that statistic on crossing zero, 65 times?>> 65 times according to our stat gurus here. >> that kind of tells b with youin', we don't know what we want to do at the moment. that might be a good indicator, might mightent it? european stock markets are up an hour into trade. the ftse cnbc global 300 is absolutely flat. the ftse 00 snapped a winning streak yesterday. at the moment, we're all hovering around the zero mark. so we'll be in and out of zero territory as we head to the u.s. open. travel and leisure, health care, basic resources. on the currency markets, we can say the yen is pretty much up across the board up and near a five-week high against the dollar pb 6/the pound against the dollar just hedged up from below 1.62. but it has been very slowly, but steadily grinding lower against both the dollar and the euro, as well. we'll talk about that still to come, christine. >> ross, here in asia, risk aversion is sending the japanese yen, the currency stronger and that's how the exporters. the kospi getting dragged down 0.9%.

people such as matheson and mike ross, bluedogs like that are conferring regularly with lobbyists, with the white house, with all the players because that is where the key lies to dealing with this. >> host: question from darrell price. why should executives have a seat at the table other than the millions underinsured? >> guest: well, that is a fundamental question about our system that people have been talking about for decades. we're trying to grapple with that. as former writer of "washington post," who wrote on the topic years ago, i can't remember the name of the book. he said, here in the city, outside of the window where is we sit on capitol hill are these gleaming facts of democracy. we have this elaborate special interest in washington and there are groups that represent consumers and represent not just the corporate industry. there are those that would argue that sways the process. >> host: here is chris on the democrat line. >> caller: good morning. thanks to c-span. i have a quick comment and i'd appreciate if i could get all of it in. it's a lot, but it's statements and i'

one mike ross. he leads a fiscally conservative group known as the blue dog democrats. at one point, ross sat with his head in his hands while protesters shouted at him. seems like that had played out time and time again in recent days. democrats blamed republicans, republicans say, hey, it's spontaneous. now, hard evidence that somebody is in deep organizing noisy protests at health care town halls and here's cnn's joe johns to tell us about it. >> just say no! >> reporter: the youtube videos keep coming. town hall meetings on health care held by congressional democrats into rowdy shouting sessions and now this. a memo from an organizer to activists in connecticut, spelling out instructions on "rocking the town halls with noisy opposition." it's not rocket science, the memo says protesters should pack the hall with as many fellow activists as possible to challenge the member of congress. and they're sure doing that. at this green bay, wisconsin, event, people who couldn't squeeze in were demanding it be moved outside to the parking lot. >> move it outside! >> reporter:

chuck henry at this phone number -- either you do mike ross and the entire conservative coalition tok a single-payer resolution, and until that happens we will boycott tyson chicken and any tyson products. guest: good for you. that is the great thing about this country. everyone gets to exercise their political views and articulate it to members of congress to places where they buy products and services, but companies have a stake in getting this right. tyson foods, every company in america has a stake in getting this right. we want to have a health care system that not only works for the companies and employers, but works for everyone in america. right now if you do not have health insurance you still get health care, not well or officially -- you go to hospital and get treated. we end up paying for it because the government will not. we employers pay for it and that is unsustainable. host: milwaukee, wisconsin, on the republican line. caller: thank you, c-span. you guys do a great job. you have been on the air for some time. the whole premise of the health care reform was to bend o

chuck henry at this phone number -- either you do mike ross and the entire conservative coalition to back a single-payer resolution, and until that happens we will boycott tyson chicken and any tyson products. guest: good for you. that is the great thing about this country. everyone gets to exercise their political views and articulate it to members of congress to places where they buy products and services, but companies have a stake in getting this right. tyson foods, every company in america has a stake in getting this right. we want to have a health care system that not only works for the companies and employers, but works for everyone in america. right now if you do not have health insurance you still get health care, not well or officially -- you go to hospital and get treated. we end up paying for it because the government will not. we employers pay for it and that is unsustainable. host: milwaukee, wisconsin, on the republican line. caller: thank you, c-span. you guys do a great job. you have been on a for some time. the whole premise of the health care reform was to bend or

people such as matheson and mike ross, bluedogs like that are conferring regularly with lobbyists, with the white house, with all the players because that is where the key lies to dealing with this. >> host: question from darrell price. why should executives have a seat at the table other than the millions underinsured? >> guest: well, that is a fundamental question about our system that people have been talking about for decades. we're trying to grapple with that. as former writer of "washington post," who wrote on the topic years ago, i can't remember the name of the book. he said, here in the city, outside of the window where is we sit on capitol hill are these gleaming facts of democracy. we have this elaborate special interest in washington and there are groups that represent consumers and represent not just the corporate industry. there are those that would argue that sways the process. >> host: here is chris on the democrat line. >> caller: good morning. thanks to c-span. i have a quick comment and i'd appreciate if i could get all of it in. it's a lot, but it's statements and i'

and then there are $556 million, and the two mike ross over a little bit, but not that much may be, forhis payroll, for this premium that we have talked about that initial and it was provided by director stephenson. so the billion dollars gets closer. $810 million if i add that together. and some of which has been realized through your actions. and i guess my interest here now, i was compelled early on when you said i did all this, one and a half people. you know, who probably worked through some pretty long days and under a lot of pressure. how many people would you estimate that you need so that the one and a half times whatever you multiply or had to to really be effective and get things done so that you are not compelled to drag in a very confident afghan, they have a big mission to do there, contracted to play off against the iraqi contractor so you can do this bottom line negotiations because you don't have the staff to do the kind of price analysis and you would like to do. do you need five? do you need 10? can you give me a sense of how many individuals would make your life mana

ross. >> thanks for that, mike.een a bit down here. ftse 100 down 0.2%. the xetra dax down 0.4%. euro nudged up against the dollar at the moment, 1.431. off session highs elsewhere. dollar/yen, 93.98. i think follows are pretty light, actually, today as far as the currency markets are concerned, maura. >> in the equity markets, we did see a rebound for this region. shanghai had a bit of a choppy start to the trading day, but management to gained about 0.8% by the end of the session. in japan today, we saw japanese stocks closing at a ten-month high. that would be a high for 2009, as w well, all of the back of consumer data we got for last month. the nikkei 225 close at 10,639, again, the highest level for 2009. we're seeing nymex trade around that $72 level. brent also around the same levels, as well, $72.20 a barm for brent crude. mike. >> thank you, maura. senator ted kennedy has died after a battle with a brain cancer. senator ted kennedy was the leading voice on many issues, including health care reform. cnbc's

mike ross? caller: no, sir -- yes, sir. host: one of the blue dog democrats? i did not mean to interrupt. caller: i asked him about illegal immigration, i asked him about the part of the constitution that says a child born of an illegal immigrant here in the united states is already a citizen. i don't believe that -- never got a response from him. host: in your comments based on an op ed this morning on "usa today." by speaker pelosi and majority leader steny hoyer, un-american attacks cannot derail health debate. missouri -- agrees it is american. caller: i do not agree it is un-american. i am against the government health care plan -- it did not work in england or canada or the two states it has been tried here. i believe people -- reason why people like getting a little heated at these events is because congress is trying to push it through before the august break so they felt the need to really go out and strongly oppose it. they are going to require an hour of counseling for the elderly, 80 or above, to say you can kill yourself. they are going to require

the last letter i'll read is mike from ross county.ss county -- the county seat of ross county is chillicothe, south of columbus. mike writes i'm a self-employed small businessman. i'm unable to obtain insurance for my family. i live that risk every day praying my wife and daughter don't need major medical care. this is america. we can and must do better than that. madam president, one of the things we did in this bill was put together provisions for small business people. if you're self-employed, if you run a small business, you can get better -- you can get insurance at a more reasonable cost. we know big insurance companies charge small business much more per person than they charge larger businesses. this will allow a small business to go with other small businesses in what we call the exchange, and they'll get much better rates because the insurance costs and the cost of illness and treatment will be spread over hundreds of thousands of people instead of only 5 or 6 or 10 people in one of these health care plans in a small busines

mike sellers. i'm playing dave ross. no offense to dave ross. >> look forward to tomorrow. >>> guess we're talking weather right about now. >> sound goods to me. >> it's been hot out there for the dave on dave contest. they've been sweating. >> i know. i feel bad for them. now they know what it's like to go through the redskins drills on these very warm days in gust. too bad they can't move camp till later in the year. a little bit of shower and thunderstorm activity showing up tonight. not in the district just yet but we do still think there will be a little bit coming. maybe just maybe you'll hit a shower during the day tomorrow. a couple of things have changed in our weather forecast. we'll start with max hd radar and show you what we're seeing out to our west. not much but there is a little bit of activity and one or two thunder boomers in the too far from the front royal area and on the other side of interste 81. we had a lot of cloud cover today so that limited a lot of heating although we still did get up to 90. l

a good man and electing him was like electing bill gates or electing mike bloomberg or electing, let's see, as a mother, maybe ross perot, some other capitalist figure president. the country said we want a businessman to rationalize the country and there was nothing wrong with some aspects of that but he had an unfortunate -- >> host: he was also an engineer -- >> guest: he was an engineer, yes. but he was a control freak, that was the temper my problem. so hoover would rather have control as president and do what was right. that's a harsh thing to say but it's happening over and over again. he also -- >> host: people wanted that in 1928 though? did that make sense okay i want a control freak after everything goes to hell -- why were in 1928 why were people looking for an engineer who could control things who was famous for helping flood victims and just creating a large scale -- >> guest: i don't think they fought with them as a control freak. it was let's get that private sector something he has that gates has the google founders have, let's get brolin for president -- >> host: romilly? >> guest: i will. let's m

ross det whiler will be here in september. and they will be given a shot or two of the starters again. and belliard hits it well to center. that is over the reach of mike cameron. zimmerman is coming around 3rd. he will score easily. now the ball is lost under the wall. cameron puts it up. if i was belliard i would keep running. he should be running. the ump pyre does not have to call that a frowned rule double. he should be in the dug out now having touched home plate. he should not be waiting for the umpire to signal this a ground rule double. i mean mike cameron could have picked it out therefore. the umpire did it. that could have been an inside the park homer. that is absurd. >> bob: the out fielders have been given too much leeway. >> rob: if this is wrigley and we're with the ivy and you lose it i have seen them go in and never come out. that's one thing. that's getting0 on your knees and pinging it up and throwing it in. >> bob: there is nothing that says it supposed to roll back to you. >> it is smoked by belliard. it gets over the head of mike cameron and wedged under the pads out the there. >> bob: that can be picked up right there. as soon

.   >> bob: cody ross has a dou in three trips tonight. one of mikezzo's signings while he was with the arizona diamondbacks was dan uggla for $1,000 out of the university of memphis. >> rob: that's a good sign, but wasn't he a rule five to the marlins? >> bob: yes. >> rob: pretty good rule five. good evaluators over there. how about santana, rule five from the astros to the twins. wish they had him back in houston, don't they? >> bob: yeah, that's lightning in a bottle right there. 3-1. another strike on the corner. >> rob: he drops below the three quarter right here and throws a nice, little slide feet, outside black. gets call. pitch track right there. >> bob: this pitch could decide how the rest of this night? going to go. a 3-2 with two men aboard on a pitch up and that's why you don't throw to second base on the previous play. it gets the marlins an extra run and now it's 5-4. one of those runs, in fact, both of them charged to sean burnett. 5-4 now. uggla differs his second and third rbi's of the night. >> rob: well, this pitch is too fat right