joining us now is washington correspondent for "the new york times" mike schmidt.his is the president talking to aides about pardoning himself amidst his legal exposure in the last few days. tell me what you learned. >> in several conversations since the election, the president has told aides he is considering this. this is something that he thinks he may have to do. it's a highly controversial move. it would be one of the most extreme uses of presidential power ever. if it was something that stuck and would take some time to figure out if it would stick. it's something the courts would have to decide. it would in many ways put the president above the law. there's a justice department policy saying a sitting president cannot be indicted. if a president could pardon themselves, there would be no way to hold a president accountable. a lot more than just donald trump's criminal fate would be riding on such a pardon. >> of course, we understand -- our own nbc reporting was he's had these conversations with rudy giuliani. giuliani has denied it. sources are telling nbc

we also have mike schmidt, of "the new york times," as well as peter baker. joyce, we'll start with you. if you are -- while you are watching, what sort of red flags are you going to see, people that aren't just routine pardons, but people who are defying the norms, people who would offend some americans. >> well, i think what you're talking about, katy, is pardons that are being given for improper reasons. the president's pardon power is broad. he can essentially do almost whatever he would like to do here. but that doesn't mean that pardons can't be given that we would commonly be viewed as abusive. and i think key are pardons given out to politicians who have been convicted of corruption. we've seen this with rod blagojevich, who was released from prison. we would look for that tonight, along with other pardons that are given to people who have engaged in high dollar or serious frauds. for instance, the commutation for a florida businessman who defrauded investors in his real estate development of almost $300 million in investments. these are not people wh

the president could write on a piece of payment, i pardon mike schmidt for, you know, all of his crimesuld be a pardon. it is the most absolute of powers that the president has. and the president really enjoys giving pardons. it is something creates instantaneous loyalty between him and the person he has given the pardon to. and it's an incredibly powerful power. it's just one of the amazing parts of the presidency. now these people around the president are profiting from that. >> you have an example in your reporting of a lobbyist offering two payments of $50,000. where would that money go? just into somebody's pocket? >> so this is the story of a former cia agent named john kiriakou who pled guilty several years ago to a felony. he went to prison, he came out, he wants a pardon. he wants his pension, he wants to be able to carry a handgun. and he found this woman who worked on the 2016 campaign. she worked in florida for the president and she said i have a direct line to the white house. and if you pay me $50,000 i will lobby for you and there will be a bonus. if i get the pardon, i g

district attorney mike schmidt to prosecute more protesters that are arrested by portland police theg me he's calling for more surveillance, this as oregon law enforcement prepares for a possible escalation in violence as inauguration day nears. shep. >> seema mody. thank you. >>> the games must go on the nba and major league baseball lay out their plans to keep playing during the height of this pandemic. >>> plus, the flint michigan water crisis people got sick and died now, years later, the consequences we'll tell you who's facing brand new charges. >>> and a warning for pet owners the fda expanding a food recall after dozens of dogs died. specifics of the food in question coming. >>> and later, they're not making headlines, but we are tracking them. the policies getting pushed through in the final days of the umadniraon everyone remembers the moment they heard... "you have cancer.” how their world stopped and when they found a way to face it. for some, this is where their keytruda story begins. keytruda—a breakthrough immunotherapy that may treat certain cancers. one of those canc

restrict the ability of police officers to gather good evidence >> reporter: district attorney mike schmidt the surveillance provided to police officers when they are on the job. instilling hope, though, in some investors here in portland, oregon, that i have been speaking to the past couple of days is that real estate price prices have healed ld up well the unemployment rate in oregon has been declining, now at 6%, which is lower than the national coverage business leaders still urging city and state leaders to come together with comprehensive solution so residents and businesses can get back to the vibrant city so many know, especially having grown up here in portland, oregon. >> some encouraging glimmers there. appreciate it. >>> let's get over now to don chew. >> let's talk about what is happening with stocks. higher to start the day. not reaching the record levels that we saw last week. among the s&p sectors energy is again a huge outperformer as you can see, up 3.5% now on the individual stock basis, some of the largest oil and gas names out there leading that sector higher. that incl

the president could take out a sheet of paper and say, i pardon mike schmidt for all of his sins or forll of the crimes he committed during this period of time. and you could argue that that is a pardon. now white collar defense lawyers would tell you that you should really have some -- a lawyer document that lays out exactly what crimes you're being pardoned for. but there is not a lot of guidance in the constitution or in the law about the presidential power pardon. the president does not need to call the justice department to get them to do this. a lot of times in this administration, the president has wanted the justice department to investigate certain things or not investigate certain things and he has to go through the justice department. that's created a lot of problems for him. in this case, he didn't need anyone. >> michael, who could be next? one of the things all of us in washington who are covering the administration, we're waiting to see who president trump is going to pardon next. we are about -- depending on how you look at the clock, either three days away from him no l

clarify for the audience, using the 25th amendment to make mike pence the acting president requires a majority of the cabinet to execute. steve schmidt, a 35-year-old woman and air force veteran was shot and killed in the capitol building yesterday. one shot fired by a police officer. she was there because she believed the lie that the election was stolen. very angry about this. she believed an even bigger lie that donald trump told yesterday. that he was going to go down to the capitol with them. he said to the crowd he was going to go with them down there. and step into that line of fire. he wasn't there. >> cowards never lead from the front. they incite from the rear. but he was there, lawrence. he was there in spirit. they were there in his name. it does not matter if cabinet secretaries are choosing to resign. white house staffers finding their principal with 13 days left and making arguments and releasing statements. these are more like criminals fleeing the bunker in advance of the russian army than principled men and women executing their duty to the execution of the united states. this has been an immoral regime. we have see

. >> michael schmidt, washington correspondent for the "new york times" and an msnbc national security contributor. mike, thanks very much. >> thanks for having me. >>> as we mentioned, hundreds of lawmakers are calling for president trump's removal. and there are a few ways this could happen. he could resign. the 25th amendment could be invoked. or he could be impeached for the second time. 180 members of the house are co-sponsoring the new article of impeachment, incitement of insurrection. the plan is to introduce it monday. three democrats on the house judiciary committee draft td. jamie raskin of maryland, ted lieu of california, and david cicilline of rhode island. congressman lieu and cicilline started drafting this article by phone under lockdown as a mob breached the capitol. congressman lieu represents western l.a. county in california and joins us now. congressman, good evening. >> good evening, joshua. >> can you even put into words what it was like to begin drafting these articles of impeachment while god knows what all was happening outside of your secure location at the house? what was th