it's great of you to join us, former georgian president mikheil saakashvili. here again are nina khruscheva, professor of international affairs at the new school and member of the council on the former relation, and an author of the book "the lost khrushcev: a journey into the gulag of the russian mind," coming out later this year. and professor alexander motyl. a professor of political scientist at rutgers university, and a specialist at ukraine. i saw you nodding with the president when he talked about ukraine being too big. will it settle for crimea, and not try to put troops into the eastern part of ukraine, where there are a lot of russians. >> he may put troops into either parts of ukraine, but i think that he will settle for crimea. it is somewhat his grandiose russian delusional goal to bring crimea back, the jewel of the soviet empire, to bring it back under the russian control from ukraine. i agree with the georgian president. that he may settle for that. >> do you agree that the west has leverage that it can really apply, and force putin to behave?

pleasure. >> thank you, charlie. >> charlie: we turn now to mikheil saakashvili. he joins us from kiev via skype. he served, as you know, as the president of georgia from 2004 until 2013. many have compared russia's military intervention in ukraine to russia's invasion of georgia in 2008. i am pleased to have him back on this program from kiev. welcome. >> thank you. it's nice to be back to your show, charlie. >> charlie: tell me what you think the russians are up to and how far they will go. >> i think the russians definitely wants to grab crimea for good for a number of reasons. he wants to extend his own political existence inside russia, he wants to feel like a strong man on soviet space as well as all over europe. but also there's one big secret in crimea, almost 100 percent of shell gas is in europe. it means russia would lose its biggest customer in europe and europe would get major alternative source of energy. by grabbing crimea, putin basically killed the whole idea of energy in ukraine but also for energy to europe. not many people talk about it but tha

mikheil saakashvili. georgia and russia were locked in a crisis of their own in 2008.e told us that this conflict is very much like the other. >> i remember american companies were there. ukraine was coming to me saying that there was an order of gas. once it had happened, russia had lost the biggest buyer of their gas in europe. it is like a rack and kuwait. the energy plan for europe was huge. >> i think that even he would have trouble pronouncing his name. thoughts on vladimir putin? >> this guy is dangerous. the reality is that this is going to continue. these tactics are very simple. grab the territory, lay down somewhere else, another crisis moves somewhere, everyone forgets it. like in george's case. it might signify something fast for putin's adventures, it depends. it is all about whether it is too messy or if it is subtitled for the less control. >> ukraine said, back when the government took over, that they needed $35 billion to avoid default. the u.s. pledged $1 billion in loan guarantees. the european union appears to be pledging $15 billion in loans. 16 d

. ♪ >> we turn now to mikheil saakashvili. he joins us from kiev, on skype.e was the previous president of georgia. many have compared his current invasion to the invasion of georgia in 2008. i am pleased to have him here on this program from kiev. tell me what you think the russians are up to and how far they will go. >> putin wants to grab the crimea for good. he wants to advance his political agenda. he wants to feel like a strongman all over europe. there is one basic reading crimea. there's shale gas. crimea has almost 100% of ukraine's shale gas reserves. ukraine would be a big exporter of shale gas. that would mean that russia would lose its biggest customers in europe. europe would get a major alternative source of energy. putin basically killed the whole idea of energy independence for ukraine. not many people talk about this. there are american companies that have interest in the shale gas. it is really a big political gamble. for the rest of ukraine, there is long-term destabilization. >> what does the west have to do to stop this. >> there are lot

now, mikheil saakashvili is in the kiev helping the new ukrainian government deal with this latest threat. i should tell you, want to remind you all that we are dealing with a significant sound delay here, so my apology to those of you trying to keep up at home and to the president. mr. president, very good to have you. i want to talk about what you tell those ukrainians you meet, how do you guide them? >> very good to be back to your show. well, i certainly advise them to exercise maximum degree of self-restraint but also to get ready for the worst because vladimir putin certainly is going to -- not going to stop. he has planned for full grak b crimea and he needs to expel the military bases there, the ukrainian military base they were confronting much more -- exceeding russian force but they still were very brave to trying to defend their own country. but so far it has not been -- you know, it's not been a shootout but it was very close to that. so, it's a very precarious situation. one thing should be remembered that russia has very clear plan to stay in crimea because beyond everythin

and the situation in ukraine is deja vu for mikheil saakashvili. he was president of republic of jazz in 2008. that was the last time that president putin used military force to control a province. he's still in control of those two provinces. that war lasted five days, nearly 300 died. the result of that invasion, russia is still in control. troops are still there in those two provinces of russia. "outfront" tonight, president saakashvili is there. he has been working with opposition leaders there. great to see you, mr. president. we appreciate you taking the time. it's good to talk to you. >> nice to be back on your show. >> you know vladimir putin so well. he denies issuing an ultimatum to ukraine. you heard ben wedeman say, not a shot has been fired. you told me on friday, you thought this could be a hot war. >> well, i just had a long conversation with the head of ukraine's security service, and he, indeed, did confirm there were multiple ultimatums coming from russia and he confirmed that russia is comparing for some kind of attack on ukraine