when you talk about helicopter money and milton freeman and ben bernanke and dropping cash from helicopters they're really talking about is fiscal spending and paying for it with quantitative easing. that's not easily done. it's more easily done via the fed versus the private market. >> ben bernankey e-y talked about inflation in japan 10 years ago. olivia talked about inflation at the i.m.f. five or six years ago. why is ben gross talking about it now? why can't we reflate? why is it so hard? >> in japan it's been difficult. we know the demographic situation is much more severe than anywhere in the world aside from taiwan. we don't have the same aging problem which leads to less and less demand going forward and so japan is not a typical petree dish, but i think what is necessary in the united states is fiscal spending. to be fair, the fed has talked about fiscal spending until their blue in the face, not only bernanke, but yellen as well. i think we need to spend money. what we spend it on is the question. how we elect our president going forward is the question, but infrastructure, healt

michael, you remember this -- the world stopped for milton freeman. >> inside information, right? tom: we are there with the pmi indexes. having overrated? >> at this point, it is the most reliable, most accurate of all the manufacturing surveys and it is very important to see this threshold because we stumbled in the first quarter before we pulled back, spending on --uctures, all the things tom: we will touch on this. michael mckee is scheduled to join us. right now we have to turn to japan. john herman, let me stop with you. is abenomics a failure? >> i don't want to say that because i work for the largest japanese -- tom: [laughter] >> levy just say this. -- lets me just say this. -- parent company in tokyo we have the largest takedown of every bond auction in japan and we have the largest -- it means anyone who wants to buy on jgb has to come to us in these things have rallied remarkably. want to own jgb's, as do, theple want to negative interest rate -- what is so surprising about this it just set off a big risk aversion flight to safety in japan which is what i don't think t

i think that, you know, helicopter money has taken on a connotation of, you know, bernanke or milton freeman from helicopters. that's not what happens. basically, we're talking about fiscal policy such as the one that i talked about in the past few minutes. infrastructure, we're talking about health care, we're talking about paying for things not with private debt but with debt that is basically held within the central bank. and is that costless? no. the results in higher inflation. and ultimately, it savors in terms of negative interest rates, it's the saver being taxed. somebody has to be taxed. that's the way i see it going. >> incredibly depressing. why i would bother to work? why work? i'll get paid. somebody else will get taxed or there will be massive inflation. it's a dire, dire outlook. >> i have a sense that a lot of people will work. those looking for $50,000 or $100,000 would get into the job stream. it's not a very healthy scenario. it basically suggests that as jobs are displaced that these people have to be taken care of in some form or fashion. up until now, we have taken car