. >> joining me now, kristen welker, pete williams at the courthouse at alexandria, mimi rocah, former u.s. assistant attorney for the southern district of new york. kristen, the president on all fronts and you of course with kellyanne conway today, are trying to go on offense, trying to muddy up mueller as much as they can. >> reporter: they really are. rudy giuliani overnight was again calling mueller's credibility into question. and you're seeing the president and is his allies really take sharper aim at robert mueller, andrea, as they've changed the talking point, moved the goalposts, if you will, over this issue of collusion. it's really striking because remember, the president has said many, many times over the past several months, "there was no collusion." well, now the talking point seems to be that collusion isn't a crime. so you heard me pressing kellyanne conway about that. and they're saying, look, acquire just merely pointing out the law, collusion isn't a crime but there was no collusion as well, they add that second part. now, broadly speaking, there is agreement that co

thanks to all of you, michael schmidt, mimi rocah. california congress mman joins . you're a former prosecutor. don junior testified and, strangely, cited attorney/client privilege to shield conversations with his father, a privilege that does not exist. does congress need to hear from him again now if these michael cohen assertions can be backed up? >> well, we certainly do. we ought to bring him back in. i think we should extend an invitation to michael cohen to come back in. but i don't have much confidence that the majority will go along with any of this. after all, we knew that there was a call sandwiched between don junior's efforts to talk to emin agalarov in the setup to this meeting. we wanted to find out was this don junior talking to his father about the meeting. there would be a simple way to find out, we could subpoena the records, and the majority wasn't even willing to subpoena the phone records. >> beforehand, when it was still being set up, with their former friend and someone they had dealt with during the miss universe pageant in moscow. >> exactly

joined now by mimi rocah, a former u.s. assistant attorney in the southern district of new york. mi, i think that a lot of focus has been on what's on the tape when the more important aspect in all of this may be the fact that michael cohen chose to publicly disclose the tape. why is it more important in your mind and in frankly the minds of most legal analysts that just the action of cohen doing this is so meaningful, forget what the substance of the tape is? >> well, chuck, i think it signals in a sharp way what he's been signaling for the past couple of weeks, which is his break in loyalty from trump. as you said at the beginning, everyone knows that he famously or infamously said he would take a bullet for donald trump. and it is that loyalty that needed to sort of be broken in order for him to psychologically really be able to come around and decide to cooperate. and i don't know if he's taken any actual steps to do that with prosecutors, but, you know, i think that doing something like this, trying to really expose trump in the way that he has really, you know, again, signal

joining me now, mimi rocah, former u.s.assistant attorney, and chouck rosenberg, former fb official, both msnbc contributors. thanks to both of you. christopher wray was much more personal, he also seemed to be acknowledging, he certainly didn't deny that he is under pressure from congress to turn over sensitive current investigative information about sources and methods, considered or at least threatened to resign at times in his very short tenure. >> chris was very forthright. look, he's a thoughtful guy, he's a smart guy, he's been around the block, andrea, he knows this area. it was good to hear him very, very clearly articulate that his views of russian interference in the election have not changed a bit, nor of course should they. it was comfortable in a way to know that he leads an institution that is still out there doing its job every single day despite some of the nonsense going on. >> mimi, the other message from chris wray is that the investigation is protected. he said he would not budge when there are attempts

but secretary azar of course testified it's just a keystroke, mimi rocah, to find each other, for these parents to be reunited with these kids. you posited it's either incompetence or evil. i would suggest it could be both, that there is an evil desire to deter by making an example of these people, and then it was carried out with no planning and that that is the rank incompetence that makes it even that much worse. >> absolutely. and you're right, it shouldn't be presented as an either/or, this could be both, and i think that is what we're seeing. we know that this administration -- i mean, look at the supreme court rollout. they did that very efficiently. so they are capable, when they set their mind to things, to making them happen. they don't want this to happen. they want it to be a deterrent for families coming here. back to you and julia's point about asylum claims, these are people fleeing some of the worst violence, you know, the very gangs that he says he wants to keep out of the country, these are victims of those very gangs in their own countries. >> mimi rocah, julia ainsle

>> and katy, mimi rocah is joining us now who was a prosecutor in that southern district. where do you think these back channel negotiations or informal conversations are at this stage, mimi? >> hi, andrea. so -- well, they're back channel for a reason, so it's hard to speculating, you know, what they're doing in terms of the cooperation process. but as many of us have said over the last couple of weeks, as katy just said, it's clear michael cohen now wants to cooperate. and the ball, i'm sure, is in his court. i mean, the government is going to -- i'm sure has already said to him and his lawyer that the door is open for you to come in and talk. and he can do that before he's charged. i think he's said something in his interview that he wanted to wait until he saw the charges against him, that's his right to do that, but he can also start talking to them now. the process of cooperation doesn't happen overnight. it's a process, it's exactly that. and it takes some time. you know, i don't think the fact of this recording coming out now, however it got out, it going to change

. >> thank you eddie and charlie and mimi rocah. next time you are on mimi, we'll reveal to the world what mimi stands for. >> when we come back, new details against maria butina and bail out of hypocrisy of the president trying get $12 million and aiding farmers. and space surprise, my favorite story of the day. scientists have discovered body of water on the red planet. what's next? (birds tweeting) this is not a cloud. this is a car protected from storms by an insurance company that knows the weather down to the square block. this is a diamond tracked on a blockchain - protected against fraud, theft and trafficking. this is a financial transaction secure from hacks and threats others can't see. this is a patient's medical history made secure - while still available to their doctor at their fingertips. this is an asteroid live-streamed to millions of viewers from 220 miles above earth. this is ai trained by experts in 20 industries. your industry. hello. this is not the cloud you know. this is the ibm cloud. the cloud that's built

mimi rocah.er question i would have is there was quite a bit of speculation before rick gates and others involved actually decided to cooperate, right? it was up and down and this is a long process at times. >> absolutely. it's not something that's going to happen overnight. i will say the fact that he did this interview and the things he said. there's been some speculation that he was already cooperating. this kind of tells me we're not there yet but it seems to be heading in that direction, if i were going to try and do a crystal ball. >> mimi, always great to see you. thanks for coming in today. >>> coming up -- i.c.e. out. demands dividing democrats, giving the president a potent campaign issue. (gasp) (singsong) budget meeting! sweet. if you compare last quarter to this quarter... various: mmm. it's no wonder everything seems a little better with the creamy taste of philly, made with fresh milk and real cream. these are the specialists we're proud to call our own. experts from all over the w

anyway, mimi rocah, thank you very much. >>> ahead, the government gets more time to reunite migranth their families, but how long will it really take? [music playing] across the country, we walk. carrying flowers that signify why we want to end alzheimer's disease. but what if, one day, there was a white flower for alzheimer's first survivor? what if there were millions of them? join us for the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's. register today at alz.org/walk. show of hands. let's get started. who wants customizable options chains? ones that make it fast and easy to analyze and take action? how about some of the lowest options fees? are you raising your hand? good then it's time for power e*trade the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. alright one quick game of rock, paper, scissors. 1, 2, 3, go. e*trade. the original place to invest online. >>> welcome back. tonight meet the midterms, even before president trump announces his pick for the supreme court, republicans are already using the issue to target vulnerable red state democrats, like mis

mimi rocah, thank you for getting us started. >>> was donald trump duped? new reporting from nbc news indicates north korea is proceeding full steam ahead despite the pomp and circumstances in singapore. >>> if he can't wrestle one man's dictatorship to the ground, how is he going to hand handle vladimir putin? he offered to do so in a public one, but republicans won't release those transcripts. what are they hiding? one of these before, even though geico has been- ohhh. ooh ohh here we go, here we go. you got cut off there, what were you saying? oooo. oh no no. maybe that geico has been proudly serving the military for over 75 years? is that what you wanted to say? mhmmm. i have to say, you seemed a lot chattier on tv. geico. proudly serving the military for over 75 years. you ok back there, buddy? this wi-fi is fast. i know! i know! i know! i know! when did brian move back in? brian's back? he doesn't get my room. he's only going to be here for like a week. like a month, tops. oh boy. wi-fi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. in man

we're going to do that with mimi rocah and also with us tonight former federal prosecutor glen kershnerr robert mueller at the u.s. attorney's office in d.c. when mueller was chief of homicide in a different era, and glen was just a starting prosecutor. welcome to you both. mimi, i have to ask, what does today's document tell you about where we are in this thing and where mueller is and where he's going? >> well, i think this was mueller's way of rounding out the framework for this whole russian collusion election conspiracy that we've been talking about. the first russian indictment, you know, was about the social media influence. everyone's been sort of expecting this part to come about the hacking, but i think what it does is it tells us in such great detail, you know, and shows the meticulousness and again the detail of mueller's work. and so now we have the framework, and now what's left to come is were there u.s. citizens involved in helping this? and i really think this indictment just screams out that there are and that more indictments are coming. and i do believe -- it's dange

mimi rocah, thank you very much.ddie, alexi and john, stay with us. >>> next, the intel community sounds off, but are truth and justice able to defend the american way? sweat the details. noticing what most will never notice. it's what you do. when the thing you're making... isn't a thing. it's your reputation. the all-new ram 1500. comfortably, the most luxurious truck in its class. and why more people are switching to ram than ever before. that's confident. but it's not kayak confident. kayak searches hundreds of travel and airline sites to find the best flight for me. so i'm more than confident. how's your family? kayak. search one and done. are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi.? a more powerful way to stay connected. it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your network with the xfi app. it's the ultimate wifi experience. xfinity xfi, simple, easy, awesome. (birds tweeting) this is not a cloud. this is a car protected