marc lives in mindanao. >> anthony: mindanao. south of the country where marc navales lives and works. >> ben: mindanao has been war-torn for the last how many years? because of the radicalization of recent years, this growing specter of isis, mindanao is fertile grounds for that. >> anthony: now traditionally the argument against journalists arming themselves is that journalists have always been able to portray themselves as noncombatants. >> marc: yes. >> anthony: there was some presumption that they would not shoot you. >> ben: yeah. >> anthony: but these days, people seem to not make that distinction. >> ben: yes. dating back to the marcos years even. >> marc: since 1992, 77 journalists were killed. >> anthony: politics here can be deadly. just before christmas in 2009, the maguindanao massacre claimed the lives of 58 people. dozens of whom were journalists. it was the single deadliest event for journalists in history. marc was the first one on the scene with a camera. >> ben: there is no system of justice. there is no govern

in the philippines, where i have spent quite a few years, the mindanao problem has been with us for years. the two or three extremist groups that exist there. what worries me is if i understand it correctly, there is an effort at appeasement of these violent extreme is groups. -- extremist groups. personally, i'm exposed -- opposed to that because that gives them an anchor point from which they will expand their base of operations. i am a little bit removed. i defer to the secretary, sector lincoln -- secretary blinken about our current policies. as a matter of principle, i don't favor of using extremists. i think you have to root them out, stamp them out. a lot of it in some will and capacity of the people. i think we can help them but i don't think we can do it for them. daines: the goal of foreign aid is to assist countries and get them to attain certain humanitarian and institutional conditions in which aid is no longer required. as you look at your longer-term goals, as you look at the investment we make an aid, what are measurable benchmarks that might indicate if a country is effec

in the philippines, where i have spent quite a few years, the mindanao problem has been with us for years. the two or three extremist groups that exist there. what worries me is if i understand it correctly, there is an effort at appeasement of these violent extreme is groups. -- extremist groups. personally, i'm exposed -- opposed to that because that gives them an anchor point from which they will expand their base of operations. i am a little bit removed. i defer to the secretary, sector lincoln -- secretary blinken about our current policies. as a matter of principle, i don't favor of using extremists. i think you have to root them out, stamp them out. a lot of it in some will and capacity of the people. i think we can help them but i don't think we can do it for them. daines: the goal of foreign aid is to assist countries and get them to attain certain humanitarian and institutional conditions in which aid is no longer required. as you look at your longer-term goals, as you look at the investment we make an aid, what are measurable benchmarks that might indicate if a country is effec