i have now -- minei mean getting older is not a pleasant thing, but you get the longview of history. i've now seen why. i've seen watts. i've seen los angeles in the wake of rodney king and i can name unrest. i don't like to call them riots, but it's so loaded. unrest after unrest after unrest. the question is what do we gain if anything from it? i really do want to ask, you know, as dr. dyson and dr. west battle it out in the -- two men i love love and know personally and respect. as they battle it out in the ivory towers of america, where is our leadership? if we're going to have violence in the streets, as is in revolution revolution, in our great american revolution john adams said if you're going to tear something down what do you plan to put in its place? what is the purpose of revolution? this is not a revolution. there is a simmering that came to boil in baltimore for a reason. it's because we're not having the conversations we need to be having about race in america. >> i want to get back to this point that you're not surprised. >> not at all. >> you've been looking at balti