i thank miss mccabe for coming here today. you mentioned that the epa predicts a reduction in energy costs, family energy bills, i take it, by the year 2030. would you elaborate on that and maybe give us some idea of what the reduction estimates look like. >> sure, sure. so as the states implement their plans, we expect a large reliance on demand side and energy efficiency measures that will reduce the number of kilowatts a family needs to consume over the course of a month. so when we project that out, we show that it is about an 8% decrease in a bill, in a family's bill. >> so american family might look to something almost like 10% of reduction in their monthly energy bills by 2030 as a result of this rule? as the proposed rule. >> that's what the proposed rule predicts. based on our forecasts, of course, each state, as i said, will do its own plan. >> that's not too bad. would you please describe the outreach that epa conducted to the various states, give us some idea of the magnitude of that effort? >> sure, we started las

mc, miss mccabe. pennsylvania generates a significant amount of our electricity from coal. over the last few years, we've seen several coal plants retired in pennsylvania to be in compliance with the map standard. i heard this type of early action will be acknowledged and epa officials said on a recent conference call that it's their intent to credit plant retirements forced by the mat's rule. how will states and generators get credit for plants they retire or will retire between 2012 and the final rule? >> so anything that a state does that reduces the amount, the carbon intensity of the generation in the state will be eligible to be part of their plan. so if a state is closing a coal plant for whatever reason, and there are many reasons why coal plants are being closed around the country, if that power is replaced with either lower carbon, natural gas or zero carbon, renewables, or not as much generation is needed because of energy efficiency, that will all work to the state's advantage building their glide path towards the goal required. >> but they'll get credit -- we w