today i'm announcing that the missouri highway patrol under the supervision of captain ron johnson who grew up in this area will be directing the team that provides security in ferguson yet governor how can you explain the nature of the presence that we saw on the streets yesterday i mean that was on personnel carriers about 100 police and military style uniform high powered rifles being trained on the crowd i mean who is in charge of making those decisions and on they're going to be held to account for mistakes that you clearly think have been made i think that those yesterday tonight's tonight tomorrow tomorrow kevin johnson i appreciate this and they're very busy responsibility looking forward to a new face for the police commander captain von jones who was born in the community . the scene on thursday was very different from the previous night to take gas and military vehicles this seems to be fewer police and those who were there the streets with the protesters. the change in approach seems to lift the mood. but that atmosphere was short lived. the next morning ferguson's police c

ron johnson is a retired missouri highway patrol captain and author of 13 days in ferguson, he's also founder and ceo of a solutions group, great to see you tonight. when you listen to the report of all of these officers who have been injured and also of incidents happening between officers and these protesters that put them in danger, what's going through your mind tonight? >> well, it's hurtful. it hurts, having warned that uniform and to see the officers out there trying to protect the freedom and the rights of the peaceful protesters, it hurts and it's troublesome and it's something we've got to addressed and those officers that on the frontline and those protesters, we have to address that issue and make sure that the officers are safe as well as the peaceful protesters out there for change. >> martha: you know, in terms of the way people look at the police, this is a new monopole and the question is, most state police are likely to use excessive force on black individuals, 57% say it more likely, 33% say just as likely and when you asked just black americans in this poll, 87% sa

joining me now, former missouri highway patrol captain who was applauded for the peaceful way he respondedthe ferguson riots in missouri six years ago and the demonstrations there. kevin johnson, thanks so much for being with us. can you just walk us through -- it's very easy to look at something and form opinions about it. and there's obviously multiple moving parts to this. but can you walk us through what protocol is for officers trying to bring somebody into custody? who may be resisting but may be in distress as well? >> well, i think, initially, you use those tactics that you've been trained on to, when someone is resisting, it starts at a different level of compliance. you're asking him to put his arms behind his back. but, in watching this video, it's obvious at a certain point, he's in distress. he is not attempting to fight you. he is definitely in distress. he's telling you he can't breathe. and you can hear it in his voice. you can actually see it in his face. but you see him not taking any actions toward the officer. more so, trying to maybe clutch his own chest. i mean, he's

also, ron johnson, former captain of the missouri highway patrol and the author of "13 days in ferguson." laura, you just heard what district attorney said. keisha lance bottoms today called this murder. what do you see and what kind of charges do you think might be levied here? >> well, it's important, if you are ever considering charges, you ever to think about what the actual facts are. what the hurdles you may have in a jury or grand jury and what you actually have to overcome here. and unlike the cases we've seen, just recently of a breonna taylor or george floyd. whether it was justified to use it and it's all going to come down to this notion, was he in a kill or be killed scenario? that's what proportional use of force is about. did mr. brooks present a danger to the general community? or could lethal force have been used, as a last resort? and we're looking at the da statements when he says, look, was it for some other reason? was it to try to catch up to him? failure to be able to catch up to somebody running away from you is not going to be enough to actually use lethal force

jeffrey toobin, gloria borger, former captain and missouri highway patrol and author "13 days in ferguson." laura, the president declaring himself, quote, your president of law and order. from a legal standpoint, does what the president say he can do, is that something he can actually do? >> well, frankly, he's supposed to act in concert. the insurrection act and the posse comatides, we do not want the military to act as law enforcement on u.s. soil without some act of congress or some really good reason to do so. it has been invoked at times during -- during reconstruction in terms of with eisenhower or kennedy sending troops in to try to enforce the orders when you knew the states weren't going to do it themselves. you saw it in part of lbj in the assassination of king. and california asked george h.w. bush undo this. this is an unprecedented time. without a request, without any request from any governor or anybody asking for the assistance or a militarized presence of these officers and of these military members on the streets, to october unilaterally is shocking, especially given the

and captain ron johnson, former missouri highway patrol, who led protest security during the 2014 protests this phrase "defund the police," what do you think? >> i think it means that our country is saying we need to look at those budgets and make sure the money is being allocated properly. over the years, police have been given a lot of jobs, a lot of tasks that probably should be in other places. it's not saying we're going to do away with policing, but look at the budgets and make sure that money is being allocated properly. i don't think that any agency should be upset if our community and taxpayers say we just want to make sure the money is being allocated properly. >> senator, school budgets see that every single year. yet the tag line "defund police" has our own president and other republicans saying, well, this is going to take us to a lawless nation, suddenly we're abolishing the police force. that's not what defund the police means. >> that's not what any of this means. we're at a moment, and we have to take advantage of the moment. it's not always that we have an opportunity to

this is coming to us live out of san diego this hour, and i want to bring in former missouri state highway patrol captain ron johnson. he led the law enforcement response during the 2014 unrest in ferguson, missouri, after the police shooting there of michael brown, an unarmed black teenager and also with us is retired major general spider marks and back in 1992, he led the intelligence efforts for the task force that brought military troops to los angeles for the riots that came in the wake of the rodney king beating, so both of you have such great experience, and captain johnson, i want to start with you and i have to say, i was on the ground in ferguson after the death of michael brown and i remember when you came in and helped to calm and defuse the situation there. there was so much raw pain and anger and just devastation, really. as somebody who lived through that, and helped lead that community during such a time of crisis, have the last 12 days felt different to you than what came after the death of michael brown? >> i think the first nine days felt exactly the same and somewhat a greater

for more on this let's bring in former missouri state highway patrol captain rod johnson, appointed byntrol of security operations after the ferguson protests back in 2014. thank you for joining us here. he walked with those protesters back in 2014 in ferguson and you got a lot of pushback for doing that, you believe that police officers should walk with protesters today but not just to build relationships, talk about that, if you will? >> it's not just to build relationships, it's about hearing their voice and understanding what the issues are and it's a form of community policing and also so you can understand what they're saying and give them an honest response back so that we are seeing that across the country, more chiefs are getting out there, walking and listening and i don't think it's important to give an immediate answer but to listen to what they are saying. >> there's a lot of talk now about defunding police department around the country and you know, in the past 11 days a lot of police officers have been vilified. i want to put up this quote on the screen, this is from "th

joining me is a former captain of the missouri state highway patrol.nificant role in trying to heal the community after michael brown was killed and wrote "13 days in ferguson." so many people working from home that sometimes it doesn't all work out perfectly, but ella jones, the mayor-elect of ferguson. thanks so much, both of you, for joining us. mayor-elect, we will be hanging on every word since we can't see you particularly. but what is the relationship like in your view in ferguson between police and the community right now? i know you are new to the job, but what are you saying? >> right now the ferguson police department, they are working diligently to communicate with the youth and the people of ferguson. at this time, they have started different functions with the youth. they are communicating with the people, so the relationship is getting better. >> captain johnson, people became very familiar with you and your approach. you literally were putting your arms around people trying to bridge that divide between the community and ferguson and po

missouri national guard to assist local authorities at their request. at this time we are taking a proactive approach to protect the people of this state. the national guard and highway patrol stand ready to assist if needed. and i want to thank our law enforcement officers across missouri for their efforts this weekend to maintain order and peace. we support peaceful protesters and we are committed to protecting the lawful exercise of these rights. but violence and destruction will never be the answer. it does not help us achieve justice or peace. instead, it terrorizes innocent people and families, destroy ours communities, and creates more anger and pain. every citizen deserves to be safe and protected. and to change things we must not tear each other down but stand together peacefully. however, it goes without saying, the covid-19 has had a severe impact on our anticipated economic growth. unlike anything we have ever experienced before. we are now expecting significant revenue the clines. -- declines. some may be larger than those in the great recession. just to put things in perspective, missouri saw a decline of over 300,000 jobs between march and april alone. a decl