years of military dictatorship when you when you look not just that mubarak but you could look at mobutu in the congo or pinochet in chile or marcos in the philippines and on and on thoroughly corrupt regimes where the rulers became fabulously wealthy and there the whole clique their whole grouping their whole regime was in on the corruption the people demanding an end to this it's its will lead to a time the what is being threatened is this will be impossible chaos but what has existed for decades for the average person in egypt is really chaos uncertainty not knowing how they will survive and so in every way what they are bringing is a demand for order and an end to the corrupt traders who have done so much to destroy the country and leave it underdeveloped for interesting here we have to say it's also a real lesson i think to other people around the world to the kind of regimes that us corporate policy again and again supports this thing ok so to mind and it's important lesson for right here in the u.s. who profits and yet who pays the bill and it's certainly working people right here

when we gave money to mobutu say "are you spending it well?" >> rose: or are you putting in the a swiss bank account. >> yes. even in the case of egypt did we say well, is their system really good? is it operating to provide actual jobs to those people or is it rather creating some sense of hey, i don't have a job, how should i feel about my regime? how should i feel about the bankroller of my regime? >> rose: finally, when you look at this third report that you have written, what's the proudest achievement and what's been the biggest disappointment. >> well, i think the lives saved with vaccines would be at the top of the list. meeting with these scientists who have been empowered to do their work can be a close second on that. a lot of that is still in the pipeline. >> rose: the fact that you made grants to people to come up with ideas that we can support. >> right. so i think we will have a malaria vaccine but it's not there yet. the biggest disappointment is that i was naive about how slow, how complex these things are. certainly we spent a