mohammed al sharia and be khalid ef khalidal sharif. >> in 2004, the u.s. state department designated l ampfg as a terrorist group but khalid and mohammed were detained a year before. when the cia came or t they were living in paki with their families. this was just before you were detained? you look so young mohammed. mohammed and khalid were herded and shackled and flown to a cia facility they call the dark prison. for the first several months, they were often kept completely naked. mohammed and khalid say they were chained to the walls to prevent sleep for days at a time. during the interview we were into erything that hadhappen to. more than half of the cia detainees are thought to have spent time in what mohammed and khalid call the dark prison. the cia called it detention site cobalt. it was hard to believe that this place not only existed but was purpose-built by the world's premier intelligencegency. when the cia inspecten sent an investigator to the site, they found one person who had been chained to the wall so far as they knew, for subpoena days. the paperwork reads like an ice alaition film. isolation film. the chief of interrogation said cobalt was the closest thing to a d

aspects of intelligence or about, making decisions that nobody else will make us make in an infinite great area as you know. >> host: let me ask you about khalid sheikh mohammed. there was a dispute, still ongoing i suppose about whether or not he being the only person who was waterboarded a substantial number of times, as distinct from once or twice, whether or not the waterboarding of them produced information from him that did, in fact, help lead us to discover osama bin laden's courier or been wondered what is your view on that? >> guest: it would be nice to have this golden thread and say ding, ding, ding, that's so obvious. but you've been in the same office i worked in, jim. there's no golden threads. there are hundreds if not thousands of threads edge into if you're really good in a fabric that gets you where you to where you want to be. so did just hit a couple data point. it wasn't waterboarding that made them talk. it was sleep deprivation. okay? so we did use waterboarding. but at the en end of the it wase of the other techniques. having said that, there is the difference and how leachate mohammad before and after the eit, the enhanced interrogati

or so many things that i think are absolutely horrid. >> your memoir, "drawing blood," starts with a scene of you drawing khalid sheikh mohammed, the man believed to have masterminded the 9/11 attacks. why did you start there? >> i was trying to think of this moment that summarized everything that's kind of paradoxical about art. i was sitting in this kangaroo court in guantanamo bay, drawing the man who probably murdered 2,000 of my neighbors. and while i was drawing him, i was breaking his face down into lines and angles. it sort of summed up everything that my art is about and everything that the book is about, which is taking something that's this moment that really shows the raw edges and raw horrors of the world, and then combining that with the aesthetics. i've been to many places where bad things were happening for lack of a better word. but guantanamo is our thing. i say, "ours," like, that's... that's the american horror. it is the most american place in the world. it's a place where, when i went, they were force feeding and torturing really...dozens of men, while at the same time there was a cheerful gift shop that sold t-sh

or anything but i was 100% r >> seth: that's not boastful. that doesn't sound boastful at all. >> it's factual. it's factual. [ laughter ] >> seth: that's factual, yeah. >> when i said we should try khalid sheikh mohammedld have been on death row right now as opposed to wallowing in guantanamo for six years or so with no prostects. he's going to go to trial. it's because people lost faith in our system of justice. >> seth: another thing, i feel like many people are losing faith in now, we obviously have an opening on the supreme court. you dealt with them closer than most. what is the impact of republicans refusing to vote on a replacement and is that obstructionism in your mind? >> i think it's the height of irresponsibility. the motion that a court would be not at full strength or make it until this time next year under the plan that i guess senator mcconnell is talking about means that many important decisions the court will consider will do so understaffed. we could potentially go without a full supreme court for almost a year which i believe will be the longest time that that has happened since the civil war. especially given the fact that we have merrick garland, who is a very qualified, mainstre

laachraoui including brothers ibrahim and khalid al bakroui are either dead or unaccounted for. these two, mohammedrt cameras tuesday remain on the run and are considered among the most wanted men in europe. tim lister, cnn, london. >> well, i'm joined now by a political science professor for the university of brussels. thanks for joining us. what did you make of the resignations last night, the fact that they weren't taken? >> well, in belgium we have this tradition that when services maker roar, the ministers that are politically responsible for these errors resign. so in this case that should have been the case. but of course this is a difficult time, terrorist threats. so it's probably not the best idea to good and switch two of the most important ministers concerned with this threat at this time. so that's one of the reasons they stayed. but well, today they have to make explanations before parliamentary commission. so i'm not sure their position is completely safe yet. certainly because other elements might still come to the surface also in the next week. >> a great deal of soul-searching in