you have to coordinate, there's international harmization, there's equipment around monoization, there's -- harmonization. there needs to be a rational market for spectrum, and the government has to be that market maker. it's a debatable point, but i think that's the better point. the third way is the status quo which is you wait for a crisis, and then the government by administrative fiat simply takes it away from whoever has it to begin with. i'm, you know, i'm okay with that except that that's crisis response. it's ineffective and, basically, leads to years and years of litigation. incentive auctions would provide a method that's market-based. that's what i'm for. >> host: so in a sense, in your view, are the broadcasters sitting on underutilized capital? is. >> guest: well, i think some are and some aren't. what's interesting about the debate is that the broadcasters continue to say things that assume that all broadcasters are the same, that if we allocate spectrum to any broadcaster, we need to allocate it the same way to all broadcasters. we have 25 broadcasters in new york, we hav