we went on to montesquieu. we read the spirit of laws and we read letters. we read a lot of voltaire, we read rousseau, we read david hume, we read thomas paine and the american founding fathers and just a whole variety of people. it was a huge hit in. a couple of the students actually. why don't we read these things in high? they're so important and we don't know them. so that was a great it was a hit both at the college and at the at the prison. it is a deep material should all be reading in high school so brooke allen the obvious question is what was it teaching john locke to maximum security prisoners and what did you expect and what was he what the actual reality? well i expected that it might be a difficult sure but in fact, they were a lot easier to with and still are really than college students. they had had to make a big effort to get into the program had to apply to bennington college effectively and be deemed at a good enough level to get in and do their college level work not remedial and. so some of the students had were sort of like ordinary c

this time that quite a dangerous proposal, because there was a french philosopher by the name of montesquieu who said that republics could not exist in large continental oil ways because the further away you were from the periphery, the more prone or at those fringes spin off from the center. and so the question, how big a republic could get? and still function was still undetermined. so america became this great experiment for expansion of freedom and democracy and equality. there were number of explorers that went west during jefferson's tenure in office. and we will focus on this red line where the lewis clark expedition embark from while they embark really the false of the ohio up here all the way down to saint louis and then the saint louis to the columbia. but you'll also notice that pike went on several expeditions. he explored the headwaters of the mississippi happy arriving at lake itasca, and he also went on a southwestern to find the headwaters of, the red river, and eventually arrested by the spanish and, transported through spain and, back around to natchez, the freeman custer e

and you have montesquieu their own that group, and he is mentioned in -- as one of the real influences for madison. there is your reading list, if you really want to get down into political philosophy. as you understand more and more about the political philosophy that they knew well, you start to understand where these principles came from. so, let's start with republicanism. when we read from the federalist paper 39. the defense by the applicant -- exhalation by james madison really gets us clearly grounded in the idea of -- federalist paper 39, this is what madison says. the first question that offers itself is whether the general form and aspect of the government be strictly republican. it is evident that no other form will be reconcilable with the genus of the people of america. with the fundament of principles of the revolution. or with the honorable determination which animates every manner of freedom. thomas all of our political experiments on the capacity of mankind for self-government. if the plan of the convention, therefore, be found to depart from the republican character,

and you have montesquieu in that group. he's mentioned in the paulsons book as one of the real influences for medicine. put it in your reading list if you want to get it down to political philosophy. understanding more about the political philosophy that they knew well, you start to understand where these principles came from. i can start with republicanism. when we read from the federalist paper 39. the defense by the applicant -- exhalation by james madison really gets us clearly grounded in the idea of -- federalist paper 39, this is what madison says. the first question that offers itself is whether the general form and aspect of the government be strictly republican. it is evident that no other form will be reconcilable with the genus of the people of america. with the fundament of principles of the revolution. or with the honorable determination which animates every manner of freedom. thomas all of our political experiments on the capacity of mankind for self-government. if the plan of the convention, therefore, be fo

point, but, on smeyon -- on the veto question, just narrowly on the veto question, you know, locke, montesquieuthe federalis legislative power, and is sharing of the legislative power. and it's in article i, which kind of sues the founders considered it a legislative power. i guess i'm a little less moved by that lollapalooza than you are. maybe you can help me out, though. mr. katyal: sure. of course. d i think it's reflective in the chief justice'ents to my friend on the other side. there is certainly something legislative there, but i think that the overall point of smiley is to say -- and my friend says this in the reply brief at page 6 -- you take legislatures as you find them. he agrees with that propositio that's what smiley did as well. the legislature as it was found in minnesota in smiley w - thinks the north carolinady here supreme court is eing a legislative function. we all agree on that too, right? mr. katyal: correct. justice gorsuch: okay. so that kind of care of that argument, doesn't it? what am i missing? mr. katyalnderlying smiley is something more specific than that. i's ba