joining us for that conversation from morgan town west virginia, from new york city, matthew, director of homeland security at mercy college, and from baltimore maryland, hubert williams, a former police director in newark new jersey. >> welcome to the programme. >> let me start with you. you have been at this for a long time. when did we see things change. how did they change. >> well, the police started to bring in heavy equipment. i guess, from what i have seen, 10-15 years ago. and they purchased it from the military. the big issue here for me is not just the equipment that they had, but how that equipment is used, what kind of policies are established to determine how that equipment is used, and what levels of accountability exists to ensure adherence to policy. police may need some of the equipment in dealing with terrorist situations and other unusual event. certainly dealing with still disorders and riots. this kind of equipment is problematic. >> matthew, when you introduced something new in the way of equipment to a police force, to any force, does there have to be intentiona