the mossad has the reputation of being the best spy service in the world.whether... >> rose: is that ajustified reputation >> i'm not sure it is. but it's like that's t reputation theve had for at least 30 years and ty've had a succeson of people running and it's not just the mossad, there's the shin bet and other intelligence agencies. th have that reputation and they are very good but they've made some mistakes, too. some of them spectacular mistakes. they killed the wrong manat one point. >> rose: they acknowledged that, didn't they? >> they did. >> rose: who was that in terms the hunt in black september to find out the people involved in black september they called a person that was not... >> exactly. so nobody's perfect. >> rose: tiger trap is this book. america's secret spy war wh china. the "washington post" calls david wise justifiably so america's premier writer on espionage. thank you, my friend. nice to see you. thank you, charlie. captioni sponsoredy rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

of the kill lots of agents targeted a single person in clude specific kinds of and most when the mossad allegedly killed. mugabi in syria that was one person when they killed. when they did the blue here in dubai that was aimed at one person it's not the case now there are people who will say that the fact that this didn't bear the hallmarks of a messiah hit but rather that it bored. hallmarks of a syrian hit was them assad's attempts to make it look like syria did it ok listen if the argument is that it's them aside when it looks like them aside and it's them aside when it doesn't look like them assad then that's not an argument that can be answered that's that is the essence of an unfalsifiable conspiracy theory the second charge which is that israel benefited is an absurd charges are all did not benefit by putting his bhalla by eliminating his ball as opposition and eliminating syria's up and eliminating syria's opposition now it could be that gentleman right here or would you continue right after a short break walter short break we'll continue our discussion on the u.n. tribunals fo

[laughter] so, we do have a cooperation but with the mossad but it is also edgy. the broader question of the israeli u.s. connection of foreign policy is a very tricky one. when you address this kind of thing, as i have, you have to be really, really careful because you're going to make somebody mad. but there certainly has been an effort on behalf of support of israel here in the united states to make, and find a discussion of the u.s. national interest, vis-À-vis israel, on very narrow bounds because, you know, they are supporter of israel, care and simple, and that's fine. i tried to distinguish when i talk about this between our profound commitment to israel's right to exist, you know, and to never forget what happened, which is i think aim moral commitment of the highest order. and the indulgence of the a particular policy, any particular israeli government, vis-À-vis our national interest. i sort of think we have a deep moral interest in israel. i do not always think that the policies of benjamin netanyahu, for example, are either in the national interest of

. >> rose: how did the mossad find him?came from a man named fritz bauer, a jew, who had been imprisoned during the nazi area, he was a socialist, escaped from germany to denmark and when the germans came to denmark went across to sweden and insweden he was with a fellow socialist who said to him "you have to come back to germany to help establish a fair judicial system." goes back to germany, becomes a prosecutor and he works as a prosecutor and he's very interested in prosecuting nazi war criminals something which germany was quite ambivalent about and chancellor add naur was quite ambivalent about. >> rose: because they wanted to forget it? >> they wanted to forget it. they wanted to move on and also because addenhour's government was riddled with people who'd rked under the naz. some of them have worked in the weimar, democratic gmany. some of em worked under the nazis d were wking under e post-war german government. so he has a very mixed feeling about trying nazis. fritz bar gets this infoation, the prosecutor, and he

nothing of a bunch of people a widespread clandestine network over 60 countries with the cia and the mossad in the intelligence outfits of the country's worrying about you. he's certainly overmatched but she was no fool and one of the reasons that i think that al qaeda has been so intent on acquiring the materials they are looking for an equalizer, looking for a game changer and all they could do is pursue the active asymmetrical warfare. that's why it is a worry that it bin laden affect someone in the long run bin ladens's operative says to him, you know, the years since 9/11 u. sense that to some extent what happens in the middle east the world is moving on. the reform in egypt and tunisia for example and who knows when and how they are going to end certainly it has a more healthful alternative them the fantasy of jim islamic kilmerson the ultimate success of bin laden depends on how much hatred there is in the world and in the middle east and that has to do with lots of things the government the likes of the folks. >> speaking of which we have two questions related to israel. one of them

targeted in iraq before with two killed in as many years during authorities blame israel secret service mossad or for the killings. nato has carried out fresh air strikes of the libyan capital hitting colonel gadhafi headquarters and on a friday a crowd rallied in tripoli in support of the colonel whose whereabouts remain a no libya has been ravaged by civil war since february with the nato led coalition launching airstrikes in march a large military contributor says that there's a growing credibility gap within the alliance over the intervention. there is been a lot of talk about. the u.s. policy or the lack of faith or regarding pakistan and afghanistan no less has been said about the nato operation or actually aerial intervention and bombing in libya take a closer look at how the nato aerial bombing in leave it is related to american tribes is in afghanistan and pakistan on a technical basis yes they and nato intervention and indiscriminate bombing and libya could be both the united states and nato operation but technicalities aside it is not just a tune a half wars for the united states in

in iran in the last two years iranian authorities have previously blamed ease rail secret service mossad for similar killings and that could be again that the case according to qian mokhtari a political commentator in tehran. iran has just carried out an operation against the. backed. militia group in kurdistan pay jack which is really really very badly and iran has just taken over three of their bases so it was to be expected but whether it's going to in any way impede the run in nuclear program i don't believe that that is the case because knowledge is something you can't kill at this is something that the enemies of iran will have to buy a trial a has not come up with a single speck of evidence that iran has deviated from its peaceful nuclear activities it is a nuclear energy program given the shia appetites of the east and the west for energy resources of iran wants iran's energy resources have finished we have to look to the future are we going to be dependent for our fuel rods on the west will be east of the going to chance it or not and we've decided not to do so. well european le

targeted in iran before with two killed in as many years ring authorities grave israel's secret service mossad for the killings. nato has carried out first strikes of the libyan capital hitting colonel gadhafi said quarters last friday a crowd rally support of the kerrville his whereabouts remain. libya has been ravaged by civil war since february with mates already coalition of logic airstrikes in march artie's military contributor says that there is a growing credibility gap with the alliance over the intervention there is going to a lot of talk about the u.s. policy or the leg afraid to regarding pakistan and afghanistan no less has been said about the nato operation or actually aerial intervention and bombing in libya take a closer look how the nato aerial bombing in leader is related to american travel is in afghanistan and pakistan on the technical bases yes again nato intervention and indiscriminate bombing in libya could be both for the united states and nato operation but technicalities is it is not just to turn a half wars for the united states in reality if not on the ground at leas

great program so the death of his involvement is educational level and iran now is a blaming israel's mossad for last year's killing will they say the same now given the involvement you say is just academic so will they say the same and do you agree . well the the you know iran has just carried out an operation against the as zionist backed. militia group in kurdistan pay jack which is really really very badly. wrong has just taken over three of their bases so it was to be expected. but whether it's going to in any way impede the running nuclear program i don't believe that that is the case because knowledge is something you can't kill and bin this is something that the enemies of iran will have to learn by trial. you know you have a massive pool of very talented scientists who will be able to carry on in all fields aerospace and the nuclear scientists agriculture. anything you name it ok well an intelligence report claimed this week that president mahmoud ahmadinejad wants to forge ahead openly with developing nuclear weapons what's your view on that. idea at the last bit of type question r

movie that is closing out the the festival that's the debts it's a spy thriller a set around the mossad's israeli spy network very very highly anticipated movie under the boat to be able to see that myself and also dame helen mirren the star all but movie as well as a whole host of russian celebrities from stage screen and this world of sports as well no i mention this green carpet the might be able to see people walking past. well i asked the organizers when i was speaking to you last week at the opening ceremony why it was green i couldn't get an ounce of then i finally being told and so unfortunately answer is terribly boring one thing that isn't boring is some of the problems that apparently it's been causing. for women trying to get ready because they're. putting on costumes full the the red carpet was apparently green is a terrible color to have your picture taken again so a lot of stressing inforcing is going into making sure that they have the the right dress so that when the paparazzi snap goes off they look out their best of course when i found this out i was also going through

knows very little about me take source protection or seriously lie to me he says which the original mossad interesting and then manning said he won't work with you if you reveal too much about yourself and i did this passage is also really important because we've seen numerous investigations be it by p.b.s. frontline or c.n.n. or they're all trying to find a way to connect manning it to assign a songes repeatedly claim that he does not know who his sources are do you think of this at least helps give some proof to that do you think of this could damage the government's argument at all absolutely. absolutely dishonest has been saying. it frustrates the attempt of the government of our government to link should some kind of conspiratorial relationship with manning so that does not seem to come out of all of these new fuller chat logs and why it is getting a lot of flack for the fact that they didn't release these until and having them for more than a year of the before they only release certain excerpts do you think of it deserve all that scrutiny. i think they deserve some flak i think they