we used a stone built on moussaoui when we had him -- a stun belt on moussaoui when we tried him.rks beautifully. it is like a belt, a small girl. it is under the clothing so it tle.ot be -- a small gir it is under the clothing so it cannot be seen. if you get a shock, you could lose your bodily functions. you could be embarrassed. some criminals i face do have a sense of dignity. the last thing you want to do in the court is to be on the ground and possibly soil yourself. once i put that built on a set -- on a defendant, i never had a problem. when bill goes down to guantanamo, he says there are no restraints that all these people. >> in the 9/11 case, there were no restraint whatsoever on any of the defendants at any time. that said, there is also about 15 armed soldiers standing on the wall as well. when i first got there, i was really shocked. they did not give us a security briefing. they would tell us to watch for this. do not give him a pen. this kind of a pen, he could kill you with if he wanted to. when we get to guantanamo, there were no briefings at all, not a single on

sa car ass moussaoui alsahara. and that was his view of the trial. -- zacarias moussaoui al sahara. and that was his view of the trial. [applause] >> do any of you want to comment before i ask any questions? >> no? let me tell you about the alter native of civilian trials. jill mentioned how difficult to operate on this system. it's because they've been raised in a cult chur and their completely absorbed in the coid of military justice. it would be useful to know why we need an alternate system than the ucmj. you've been very critical of the commissions. whether you think that the ucmj could be used? >> if there was a need to make any particular changes in it, congress could amend the statute to address particular crimes if that were necessary. but i don't think it is. to me the reason i think the commissions have been such a hardship for judge advocates not only the leaders not consulted in the initial versions of military commissions but the tried and true, the common law developed over law statutorily driven military justice system in effect since it was adopted by congress in 19

it happened in the moussaoui case. is a human enterprise. and tell the jurors, and hamlet there is comic relief. it does not mean the whole play is not a tragedy. it just means it is a human enterprise or sometimes people laugh. he tried to set the tone for the jurors so they really understand what we are going to be doing together. even if the president thinks the outcome is a done deal, it is not. it is if we set the right tone in the courtroom. >> to you have any comments? >> you would do everything you could to get that in front of a juror. in moussaoui's case he could never tell the jury how they will get out one day. when they might see him walking down the street. let's point out why these debt changes everything. a death penalty case is different predi >> we would tell the jury that the attorney general does not care what you think. no one cares what you think. it is the matter what you do. he will be held anyway. why bother? they are just want to hold him anyway. then iraq would object to the argument. -- in rob would object to the

and it happened to the moussaoui case. with the human enterprise trial. remember in hamlet, there is comic relief. it doesn't mean the whole play isn't a tragedy. if this means this is a human enterprise where people laugh. you try to set the tone for the jurors. they really understand what we in the courtroom are going to be hearing together. and so i think even if the president thinks the outcome is a done deal, it isn't if we set the right tone in the courtroom. >> i would say if you were appointed defense lawyer in the case you would do everything you can to get that in front of the jury buzz of the fruche dangerousness of the defendant. rob and i were talking about. you could never tell the jury he was going get out sun some day. one day you'll see him walking downhe street and you'll say hi. >> death changes everything. a death penalty case is different because for every sergeant that you can think he's guilty. you can turn that around on whether the death personality uld be arrive. we would tell the jury that the attorney general doesn't care what

who has presided over several trials, including one we will discuss today, the trial of zacarias moussaoui. prof. elizabeth hillman of the hastings school of law at the inner -- at the university of california, and edward mcmahon and robert spencer. we look forward to hearing from our distinguished panelists. they will make brief presentation and have interplay and we will have about 20 minutes for questions at the end bridge i will turn it over to professor goldsmith. -- 20 minutes for questions at the end. i will turn it over to professor goldsmith. [applause] >> thank you very much, and that you so much for inviting me to be on this wonderful panel today. as a judge dismissed said, we are nearly nine years after 9/11 -- judge smith said, we are in nearly nine years after 9/11, and we have not yet begun to figure out what to do and how to incarcerate and capacitate alleged terrorists. the bush administration in the last -- and in the last year- and-a-half, the obama administration as well, have committed themselves to three different systems for incapacitating or incarcerating terrorists