>> moynihan had to condense the crazy by a factor of 100 to get it into that 7-minute piece. it's despicable. it's good to for washington republicans or lawmakers of oath part why is to be talking about defending speech. there are states that want to ban books in school and make that law. there is plenty of hypocrisy to go around. kennedy: the reaction to this is hysterical. it creates so much hypocrisy on both sides. projecting and force are rarely the prescriptions for freedom. >> force was how this country was found so i disagree with you on that one. there are three legs of the progressive school. the media, the government and universities. the college is aspirational. so they are shown to be places where your daughter comes in a bright eyed beautiful girl and comes out a a monster. i would suggest having a bill to seize all university endowments and use that money to pay reparations are and turn urban white and minorities against east other and stand back and watch the carnage. the ivy league schools which have been around for 200 years. they have built their careers on

up, brian moynihan toss about his views on diversity and inclusion in the workplace.uld lead major u.s. bank. that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪ scarlet: this is "bloomberg markets." julia: let's turn to our segment where we look at the issues of diversity and inclusion. hiringe're focused on practices at big banks. erik schatzker have the opportunity to discuss the topic with the bank of america chairman and ceo, brian moynihan. listen in. >> we hear all kinds of argument for why banks should hire and promote more women. they make better risk managers, generate higher returns, they are less greedy, is that true? [laughter] >> is half the population at half the talent base you are dealing with. those are interesting sideshows to the real reason. are you going to draw your account from one half of the population? if you think you will get what you want, put any analogy out there, you are nba draft any want to choose half the people and others get half the people, you get five picks, he will not fare as well. i think all of the ideas get me, we payieve people very well

it's like senator moynihan -- senator moynihan told you in '98. telling you what you may know. we haven't -- i haven't seen enough information -- >> republicans and democrats agree on this, that they did try to influence the election and you're sitting here with us saying i don't know? >> well, i think there is also a consensus during the iraq war -- >> we're talking about the russian effort on a very serious issue for lots of americans and lots of politicians in washington. >> i think it would be serious if there were serious -- >> why is it hard for you to say? >> well, it's hard for me to say because i see a lot of evidence of potential collusion and also influence on the election by false propaganda and false information against -- attacking me and a lot of people that were supporters of the trump campaign, which is unfortunate. >> and now you're welcoming the chance to tell your side of the story to clear your name. >> i hope i can. >>> russian president vladimir putin is again denying that the kremlin led the efforts to influence the u.s. el

plus, emily chang's exclusive interview with tim cook and brian moynihan on diversity in the workplaceexecutives making the , wrong kind of headlines. the ge era ends and more tumult at the top four uber. >> we don't understand how the company is going to run when they have to invest on autonomous cars. who makes that decision? ramy: this is bloomberg. ♪ ♪ ramy: this is "bloomberg best." i'm ramy inocencio. let's continue our global tour of the week's top business stories with an unexpected executive shakeup at ge. >> the change out of the top of general electric, they said tim -- announcing health care head john slattery what assume the role of chief executive. explain the timing of this decision. >> the timing is a surprise. this was likely, or increasingly likely now that trion have stepped up pressure on ge. their original position when they bought the stock was, we like the plan and we are leaving them alone. however, after several years with a weak stock, they decided, you know, we are going to step it up. jonathan: what does flannery bring to the table? he is a 30 year veteran.

after all, in the words of my predecessor in the senate, daniel patrick moynihan, "everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts"" [applause] ms. clinton: and your education gives you more than knowledge. it gives you the power to keep learning and apply what you know to improve your life and the lives of others. because you are beginning your careers with one of the best educations in the world, i think you do have a special responsibility to give others the chance to learn and think for themselves, and to learn from them, so that we can have the kind of open, fact-based debate necessary for our democracy to survive and flourish. and along the way, you may be convinced to change your mind from time to time. you know what? that is ok. take it from me, the former president of the wellesley college young republicans. [laughter and applause] ms. clinton: second, you learned the value of an open mind and an open society. at their best, our colleges and universities are free market places of ideas, embracing a diversity of perspectives and backgrounds. that's our country at

it was proposed here back in 1970 when liberal advisor daniel patrick moynihan persuaded richard richard nixon to unveil a plant that died in the senate. >> the challenge for public policy is to make sure workers are equipped to work in the new kinds of jobs the economy is creating, to make sure workers are supported in their aspirations to work. >> all of this is a long time coming. woody allen's stand-up routine in the 60s included a joke about his father losing a job after 12 years at the same company to a gadget is big. they could do everything his mother could do only better. the depressing thing woody said was that his mother ran out and bought one. >> bill: thank you, james. james rosen washington. also today, abc settled with a south dakota meat producer over a two billion-dollar defamation lawsuit lawsuit. the network report on the finely textured beef product lead to critics calling it pink slime. the defamation trial started earlier in the month. no details on the settlement. real-life movie actor claiming responsibility -- and in the end it was the latest bazaar development i

daniel patrick moynihan has wrote more books than most have read. but remember there four times more house members newt gingrich is here to talk by his latest book "understanding trump" he is not previously purchased a book but to benefit the national press club journal with his journalism training so please turn off for silence your cellphone a bite to it knowledge the of members me centcom larry, deborah frank, and also to our staff liaison. thank you. [applause] i first met speaker gingrich 40 years ago at a town hall meeting times governor cuomo would never run for president he didn't but for a while for those opinion polls and then as a historical figure himself. and as the speaker from 1995 and from the opposition party he never reached the white house despite the polls up until election day showing hillary clinton ahead. and then having a better than 70 percent chance to read a first female president pro as the top trump advisor and somebody close to the white house with new previous political experience but he is the first president with no

like senator moynihan told you in '98.about government telling you what you may know. we haven't -- i haven't seen enough information -- >> but the republicans and democrats agree on this. they tried to influence the election and you're saying i don't know? >> well, i think there's also a consensus during the iraq war -- >> don't back to that. we're talking about the russian effort -- a serious effort for lots of americans and lots of politicians in washington. >> i think it would be serious if there was -- >> why is it hard for you to say? >> it's hard for me to say because i see a lot of evidence of potential collusion and also influence on the election by false propaganda and false information against attacking me and a lot of people that were supporters of the trump campaign. which is unfortunate. >> now you're welcoming the chance to tell your side of the story, to clear your name? >> i hope i can. it's as senator moynihan talked with you almost 20 years ago. >> thank you for coming. >> thank you very much. >> thank y

it's like senator moynihan told you in 1978.nt telling you wait may know. i haven't seen enough information -- >> but democrats and republicans agree on that and you're sitting here saying i don't know. >> well, i think there was also a consensus during the iraq war. >> we're talking about the russian effort to -- a very serious issue for lots of americans and lots of politicians in washington. >> i think it would be serious if there were -- >> whee is it hard for you to say? >> it's hard for me to say because i see a lot of evidence of potential collusion and also influence on the election by false propaga information against attacking me and a lot of people that were supporters of the trump campaign, which is unfortunate. >> and now you're welcoming the chance to tell your side of the story to clear your name. >> i hope i can. >> okay. >> as senator moynihan talked with you nearly 20 years ago is that thank you for coming. >> 20% of children live in house hoemds without access to adequate food sometime during the year. >>> one

you remember hearing that from senator moynihan who documented that many years ago. so if new york is getting less , tax dollars and giving more already pays some of the highest taxes in the country, it would be unfair, in my judgment, to force new yorkers to pay for even more, particularly when many infrastructure developments and economic gains in new york benefit the economy of the entire nation. do you have more details about how president trump plans to pay for his infrastructure plan? and how will you ensure this infrastructure plan doesn't force states and localities to raise taxes to pay for federally directed projects? secretary chao: the president has always emphasized the need for new infrastructure. he has talked about $1 trillion, $200 billion of that will be direct government funding. some of the moneys will come from sale of public assets, and then the remainder will be ombination of partnerships and cooperations between the public and the private sector. d through leveraging up, through use of the federal dollars, which will be like sed like a c capit

security up to sixty seven it was sixty five in this was ninety eight two or three you know and the moynihan and greenspan commission and so . you know he knew how unpopular that would be it would devastate the republican party so he pushed that increasing the retirement age back to right now i mean right now it's sixty six in another couple of years it'll be sixty seven so he pushed it out thirty years in the future this from what we're reading today of what the republicans are doing in the senate is they're saying ok we're going to we're going to destroy medicaid we're not going to do it for seven or eight years we're going to put it into law or right now so in seven or eight years all the states are suddenly going to have to deal with you know huge multi-million ten hundred billion dollars budget busters or cut benefits to the american people since cowardly to the american people spoke about obamacare that you have to give the democrats credit they went to the woodshed for obamacare and say and they got the electoral consequences of that now the republicans need to do the same thing they

brian moynihan today said it would be down 11%, 12% or so. >> they had a fantastic first quarter, a quarter not expecting in anyway way when it came to trading revenues, so is this a little give back? >> it is. last year's first quarter was terrible for the big banks. the second quarter was a huge quarter. reverse, the had a first quarter better than last year, and that is what you would expect, but now the second quarter because of the comp of last year is not as favorable and we are seeing it down a little bit. >> are you seeing the same impact? is that trading revenue starting to weaken as well? >> it is an interesting environment. readtainty would typically tremendous volatility, and it is not. there is this very passive perspective that investors have, risks isownside outweighing the upside risks, of people are just not that active. >> auto sales and next bag. ford and the sound better than expected, nissan up 3%, ford up 2.3%. gm sales surprising to the downside, down 1.3%. what is your initial take so far on what we have seen out of the auto guys? >> it is starting as a soft month. -

what we need to do is what tip o'neill and ronald reagan with senator moynihan of new york did back in the early '80s which is to come together, create a bipartisan, nonpolitical panel to give the congress and the country an analysis of how do we fix this problem, what to do going forward. this program is too important, too many people depend on it for it to become a political football. the longer we wait, pedro, the longer it will be before we fix this problem. the folks over 55 or 50 don't have much to worry about. it's the folks under 50 who really have a lot to worry about in terms of the future financing of social security. so, you raise a good point. there are a lot of issues. we're going to be confronting this dealing with tax reform and budget issues later this year. this is a perennial issue. how should government spend? how should we tax and who gets the benefit? >> catherine in st. joseph, michigan, republican line. >> caller: yes, thank you for taking my call this morning. going back to the food program, i think you're on to something when you say that we need to look at it

bank of america ceo brian moynihan joined us this week to talk about diversity and inclusion, issuesare vital to this company and close to his heart. he sat down with erik schatzker. erik: we hear all kinds of arguments for why banks should hire and promote more women. enter risk managers, generate higher returns, less greedy. is that true? [laughter] is anyn't think that good reason. half the population and half the talent base you are dealing with. those are interesting sideshows to the real reason, which is, are you going to draw talent from half of the population? put any analogies out there -- if you are an nba draft, you only get to choose from half the people, others get to choose from everyone, who will come out better? you are not going to fare as well. all of those ideas get into -- believe me, we pay people very well that are male and very well that are female. it is on the job and what they do and how they perform. those are all sort of sound narratives. the real question is, are you going to draw from 100% of the population in an industry, in a company that is completely

bank of america ceo brian moynihan joined us this week to talk about diversity and inclusion, issuesmpany and close to his heart. he sat down with erik schatzker. ♪ ♪ ramy: welcome back to "bloomberg best." i am ramy inocencio. let's take a look back at some of the major political stories that moved markets this week, starting with theresa may's efforts to shore up support and form a new government after last week's snap election. ♪ >> prime minister theresa may could be bracing for a civil war within her own party. yes, this comes after last week's election. she is facing pressure from lawmakers who hold her responsible from the outcome of the snap election that cost the conservative party their majority in parliament. this comes on the heels of the first meeting with the cabinet since the election. >> i am keeping a close eye on this door, because this afternoon, theresa may has been holding her cabinet meeting. as you say, leading members of the cabinet have come out and held strong support of her, for example foreign secretary boris johnson and brexit secretary david davis, both

brian moynihan today said it would be down 11%, 12% or so.a fantastic first quarter. a quarter we were not expecting in any way when it came to trading revenues, so is this a little bit of give back? >> it is. it is important to remember what happened last year. last year's first quarter was terrible for the big banks. and in the second quarter was a huge quarter. this year, we had a bit of a reverse. the first quarter was better than last year. and that is what you would expect. but now the second quarter, because of the comp last year is not as favorable and we are seeing it down a little bit. >> are you seeing the same impact? is that trading revenue starting to weaken as well? >> it is an interesting environment. there is enormous uncertainty which typically would breed tremendous volatility, and it is not. there is this very passive perspective that investors have, and i think the downside risk is outweighing the upside risks. so people just not that active. >> auto sales have been a bit of a mixed bag. ford better than expected, nissan

. >> i've met with brian moynihan and was at the conference where he lowered guidance slightly. trading is volatile in interest. the rest of his book, book, what they're doing is very good. productivity, cost controls, et set area. it's not effort at the banks. across the board, from caterpillar to estee lauder to some of the banks, they said good things at this conference, so i think they feel good and again, we don't even have any real trump policies in place and yet, they fell pretty good. >> you have one policy in place. the end of war on business. from kudlow, the end of the war on business is why this market is not going down. >> stop. >> no, i'm not going to stop. >> was there a business when the s&p -- look at this. how do you know it wouldn't have? i want to about boeing and the national relations board. if they hadn't had to fight the board in south carolina. >> maybe, maybe. >> most likely. maybe, but most likely, boeing would have done a heck of a lot better. actually focusing on their customers instead of regulators. you're not serious, right? you don't think there'

so the late daniel patrick moynihan, another great liberal figure in the larger sense of the word liberal said you're entitled to your own opinions but you're not entitled to your own facts. it's very hard to have that intelligent argument if people are in different -- not only in different squares, but there isn't even a sort of connecting corridor between the squares. it's very hard to imagine how civility can ensue when people don't even meet each other or live near each other who hold different positions or let their children marry or wish their children to marry people of different views. so that's my concern, there is no public square. >> jill, you've written that you think that while all this is true, this is not a situation where both sides are equally at fault. >> i do think that both sides are not equally at fault and that there's been a bit of a false equivalency at work, especially in the discussion over the past couple of days. i think that in terms of political leadership right now, that both president trump and the congressional leadership on the republican side are extreme

the senator from new york, pat moynihan, your friend and my friend, said don't do this, it's complicated will bog you down. it never even came to a vote in a congress controlled by the democratic party. george w. bush makes a big entitlement change, a big health care change with medicare part d which was popular because no one paid for it. it was an entitlement program without a funding stream. barack obama comes in, and he knows he's talking to a country where 85% of the republican people have health insurance and 85% were pretty happy with it. he said, still, this is a moral imperative, i want to do it. i think he exaggerated his ability to make it popular with his rhetorical powers, it certainly didn't work, but i think he said, i'll do it, anyway. in fact, in 2012 and 2014, democrats suffered a huge wave of defeats. but at least obamacare was congruent with basic democratic beliefs and values about the redistributive nature of the federal government and its emeloriative powers and all the rest. republicans don't believe in that, therefore, they're being asked now to walk the plank on

>> big things happen, daniel patrick moynihan, 25 years on "meet the press" sending a message to thens on hillary care, saying significant pieces of domestic legislation require bipartisan support. the blue dog democrats were there for 1981. >> exactly. >> and the johnson era all the way through. >> the bradley tax bill in '86. >> and also as we were saying you need a president making the case for this beyond claiming that he knows what's in the bill. >> jon, susan and bill thanks very much. >>> coming up, reality check with republican charlie dent right here on "andrea mitchell reports." are' watching msnbc. (baby crying) ♪ fly ♪ me to the moon (elegant music) ♪ and let me play (bell rings) their leadership is instinctive. they're experts in things you haven't heard of. researchers of technologies that one day you will. some call them the best of the best. some call them veterans. we call them our team. >>> welcome back to "andrea mitchell reports." i'm peter alexander here in washington. back to andrea in a moment. but first here at the nation's capital, a delayed vote for the sena

jpmorgan's cfo starting this yesterday whether brian moynihan, morgan stanley sounding the same sort of alarms. why should investors be in these stocks? >> you should wait for a moment like yesterday in goldman sachs and you see a $7 or $8 collapse. that happens. it happens in great stocks, jpmorgan, whether it's the whale. yesterday it was reaction to the venezuelan bonds that goldman sachs purchased for 31 cents on the dollar. people weren't questioning whether they were going to lose money on the bonds, they were questioning ethical questions about should you be supporting that particular dictator and so forth by virtue of basically backing his bonds. >> aren't we talking -- this is a simple story. trading is down. >> yep. >> trading is bad. yields are too low. banks can't make money. why buy the stocks, erin. >> the sector is off 4.5% for the regional banks and 5.5% year to date so these stocks have been weakened pretty significantly. the sector is trading at 1.15 times book which is cheap on a relative basis versus where it's traded historically. since the election, the bank sto

places with the views of others -- one of the witnesses at the hearing was floyd abrams who senator moynihan described as the most significant lawyer of our age. mr. abrams noted we are witnessing something new on campus where students want to see and hear only views they hold and to prevent others from hearing views with which they differ. what could account for this? a profound lack of information is one answer. for example, ployed abrams pointed out that a third of college students couldn't identify the first amendment as the one that deals with freedom of speech. the day before across the street the supreme court reminded us of the vibrant right of free speech where its exercise does not depend on the sufferance of the government. in striking down the disparagement clause, they pointed out what too many seem to have forgotten, speech may not be banned on the ground that it expresses ideas that offend. speech may not be banned on the ground that it expresses ideas that offend. the foundation for individual rights and education estimates there were 43 reported instances of revoked speaking

. >> that was brian moynihan speaking with erik schatzker. >> tackling china's credit crunch. countries rising level of data what regulators want to do about it. this is bloomberg. ♪ >> breaking news. it the department of justice is investigating a unit of the company due to accounting practices. it is conducting a criminal and civil probe that relates to the charging practices when it comes the u.s. government. >> looks like they disclosed in a filing on june 7, it has been around a number of days. they say that the audit process is not been evidenced by any deficiencies a material weakness identified any significant erroneous cost charging. bring it to an appropriate resolution. now the stock is reacting. >> china is attempting to keep its economy growing wild at the same time dealing with is not the debt. how specifically is a going about that and how is he doing at its job. earlier this week, i sat down --h an associate press a for associate professor for the school of business and we talked about the impact of china's credit creation and what that is doing to growth. it i

it was richard nixon, who had fallen under the seduction of his liberal advisor, daniel patrick moynihanled the family assistance plan night wow back in 1970. a dyed in the senate, martha. >> martha: fascinating. just to reiterate one sentence about you said, and the next decade, 40 to 50% of the jobs that we now know, will disappear and be replaced by robots. it's just stunning, james. >> yes, it is. it is not that far away from now, it's only about 13 years. what is striking to me, that we heard so much about jobs from hillary clinton and donald trump and in 2016 campaign cycle. in the three presidential debates, one word that never came up, jobs was uttered 86 time, between the two of them. the word automation never came up. >> martha: stunning. the idea that you might need to give people a basic income to get through this period of huge timeouts in the jobs market is stunning and shocking. james, thank you so much. great report tonight. thank you for being here. coming up next, a novel question. recommitting to stability on capitol hill. howard unlikely bond may lead us to the answer

proposed something like this, family assistance plan t was moynihan called guaranteed income.l nowadays. with perhaps as 40, 50% of the jobs currently exist in the united states right now, will be gone due to automation within 13 years, 2030. so the question is raised, what will become of all those workers displaced by technology? thence from some ceos, like zuckerberg and musk, is that seeking stability society would be well-advised to guarranty an income for these people in such radically-transformed, economic environment. we'll look at it on "special report," with bill hemmer in for bret baier at 6:00 eastern. stuart: doesn't seem like it is feasible, james. vast amount of money would lay out there, all of us 320 million americans a guaranteed income. >> it used to be called guaranteed income in nixon's time. now they changed title, universal basic income, expands playing field from selected families or households or units or individuals, shall we say a universal promise. the question whether this universal basic income would completely supplant the existing social safety n

senator path moynihan in the '80s writing about defining devensy downward. >> say that again. >> defining downward. the uglier the discourse is or societal conditions are, you push down the norms. and suddenly what used to be out -- absolutely unconscionable engagement is acceptable. and it's okay. and that just means -- it doesn't mean that it immediately breeds violence, but what, again, what was unacceptable ten years ago is tweeted about every day together. >> ten months ago. >> the part on the frig feel more empowered. let's be clear. this is on all sides. anyone who makes this a partisan issue is simply not being honest. this level of vitriol happens on both sides. >> the vitriol isn't going away. there is an extraordinary call for unity, but already, this morning, we've seen the right say this was a left terrorist attack. the president has said there are bad people out to get him in terms of the investigation. so, from a security standpoint from the lawmakers what are they supposed to do? we heard from chris collins, maybe he's supposed to be carrying a weapon. >> terrorists attack

one of our former colleagues, my mentor, senator daniel patrick moynihan famously said everybody's entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own fact. the administration that this cbo is not to be blindly trusted. nobody has to trust the cbo blindly. those facts are driven by reality. the report speaks true to power and the american people and the american people get it. none of us can look our constituents in the eye, look ourselves in the mirror, look inside ourselves, in our hearts and justify the vote for this bill. the american people are angry, and many of them because we are even considering that. it is not in anger but it's kind of a shrug of the shoulders. it is a deep, vocal or alec anger and i have seen it and heard it at those hearings were a listen to people coming forward and recognizing for what it is a health care bill, a massive tax cut for the wealth we. just friday afternoon, one of the folks who attended the mic hearing came to the microphone and said don't call us a health care bill. it is a well scared bill and in fact, she is absolutely right. this bill cuts. .. ich

pat moynihan noted that in 1902, theodore roosevelt built the the presidential staff of three or foureople did their work in the white house living room. in 1903, the house of representatives built itself in -- an office building. the senate followed the next year. the presidency would thrive as the rhetorical presidency. presidents would eclipse congress by being leaders. the term leader appears 12 times in the federal newspapers. 11 times, disparagingly. the founders believed that presidential appeals to and manipulation of public opinion would be an anti-constitutional preemption of deliberative processes. there was, until this century, a common law of presidential rhetoric. presidents spoke infrequently and about little. washington averaged three public speeches a year. adams, one. jefferson, five. madison, who was president during a war that burned down his house, gave none. until the 20th entry, the president communicated with the legislator -- legislature, not the people. and communicated in written messages suitable for deliberative reasoning. then, modern technologies of tran

one of our former colleagues, my mentor, senator daniel patrick moynihan, famously said everybody's entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. and the administration statement that the c.b.o. is not to be blindly trusted, nobody has to trust the c.b.o. blindly. those facts are driven by reality. their report speaks truth to power and to the american people, and the american people get it. none of us can look our constituents in the eye, look at ourselves in the mirror, look inside our hearts and justify a vote for this bill. the american people are angry. many of them because we are even considering it, and it's not an anger that is a shrug of the shoulders. it's a deep, vocal, vehement, vitriolic anger, and i have seen it and heard it at those hearings where i listened to people coming forward and talking about this bill, recognizing it for what it is. it's not a health care bill. a massive tax cut for the wealthy. just friday afternoon, one of the folks who attended the hearing came to the microphone and said don't call it a health care bill. it's a wealthcare bill. and -- it's

outcome which would be a broad leadership consensus -- this is where the wonderful daniel patrick moynihan was on target in talking about how we don't make social policy without broad leadership consensus and by persons consensus. if you lost, you would still say, i had a chance to get my view point across. now that is policy, let's try to make it better. i think he would be appalled at the fact that 240 years later we were more immature than a lot of people were at the beginning, and worrying how we get out of it. the big sword is a significant problem. it's not the only problem. mickey's right, redistricting doesn't apply to the senate. the fact is, you've got a lot of states that are quite heterogeneous and diverse. and you do have a difference in the senate -- for example the , immigration bill back during the obama term the past the senate with a broad bipartisan vote that couldn't even come up in the house of representatives. but the tribalism has taken over in the senate. think what madison also knew was that you can set up a system of the constitution with laws, with rules, but nor

would be a broad leadership consensus -- this is where the late, so much businessed, daniel patrick moynihan was on target talking about we don't make social policy without broad leadership consensus and bipartisan consensus disif -- if you loss you would say i still had a chance to get my viewpoint across and now it's policy and let's try to make better. i think he would be appalled at the fact that 240 years later, we were more immature than a lot of people were at the beginning, and worry about how we get out of it. now, the big sort is a significant problem but it's not the only problem. here again, redistributioning does not apply to the senate. the fact is you have a lot of states quite heterogeneous and diverse and you have a devils in the senate. taking the immigration bill back during the obama term that passed the senate with a broad bipartisan vote that couldn't even come up in the house of representatives. but the tribalism has taken over in the senate and madison knew you would set up a system with a constitution, with laws, with rules, but norms drive it. they're like the endos