this is definitely unfortunate, but there are some fortunate things, mr sackur. there is a great momentum among the countries around the world, and one country after another making commitments to bring their emissions to zero, net zero by 2050 and 2060. this is the fortunate part of the story. right, well, let's get into the detail. and let's think first not of political leaders, but of ordinary people watching and listening to this show around the world. hundreds of millions of them will depend on cheap energy for their livelihoods. they'll rely on gas. many, many will rely on coal. and your message to them from the international energy agency is that fossil fuels have to be eliminated. now, as they see their gas and coal prices rise, frankly, they're going to say, "well, what happens to us?" it's a very legitimate question, but i have two points here to underline. first of all, we don't believe, and nobody believes, i think, that we will get rid of the fossil fuels tomorrow. it will be a process, but we have to see their consumption, their use need to decline t

it means, mr sackur, that your preferred option would be not to certify so that prices soar further.y that we are talking here on a market that is kept in the hands of those who, through spelling out policies and approaches, determine what will happen in the next few weeks and months. we would prefer to have here a bear market. russia is about bears. now it's not about bullies, it's about bears. this is where we work towards for. well, when you say a bear market, what do you mean? you'd prefer a market where the gas price stays sky—high? no, bears are those who play on the exchange for a downward trend. i see. and bullies are those who play upwards. what do you make of the american position? jake sullivan gave an interview to us at the bbc just the other day. he said, "we have long been concerned about russia using energy as a tool of coercion and a political weapon. we've seen it happen before. we could see it happen again. it would be a mistake for russia to try this." how does moscow respond to that sort of language? this is just shameless, that they continuously repeat the very s