inspite that mr torra saying that every day it's completely false.here, in ireland for other europeans, the right to secession is realised. and in international law. there is no basis at all for that. second, there's nothing in the international law that gives catalonia the right to secession, in spite that mr torra saying that every day, is completely false. only in abyssinia, ethiopia maybe, or some islands in the caribbeans, the right to secession is recognised. in international law, there is no basis at all for that. there are some lawyers who disagree with your take on that. of course. but in a way, this is about politics as much as it is about a fine reading of the law. what do you think it says.... a fine reading of the law is quite important. it's not unimportant, i agree with you, but politics is important too. what do you think it says about spain that today you have in spanish prison nine activists, catalan politicians who it seems are going to face trial on charges of sedition and rebellion in october. what is that saying about spain to t

no, exactly my phrase was mr torra could not be part of an electoral list of marine le pen, because marinee pen took out, threw out of the electoral list people for saying much less than torra. so your message to those who support catalan independence is they are, in essence, part of an unacceptable antidemocratic, far—right political movement, and they regard that as libellous, wrong and a complete misreading of what the catala ns want. i never said that. catalan independency is half of the population, two million people, and in two million people, you find every kind of people. you find people who are the way you are describing. and others that are not at all like this. let's talk about the thing that i've said, not about the things they say i've said. for example, i said once that catalan society is wounded. big wounds. we have to heal them. but before healing them, we have to disinfect the wounds. the translation of these people has been said that i said we have to disinfect catalonia, which is not exactly the same thing. this is a fascinating discussion because at the back of my mind,

it's clear that when people listen to mr torra saying the catalan people is being suffering the sames the kurds in turkey, or like the moroccans in greece, and we want to become the new kosovo, people start thinking that i'm not really serious. i guess the analogy that people would draw, the comparison, would be scotland. the british government gave the scots the right to vote on their own future, in the end the scots voted to stay in part of the union. scotland is the comparison. not the right. today the scottish people are asking for a new referendum and mrs may is saying no. if they had to write, they should be asking permission —— the right. let's talk about other key challenges facing your nation today, no doubt one of them is migration. it's a problem for many different countries around europe, but particularly pressing in spain, where you seen the number of immigrants arriving this year spiral toi immigrants arriving this year spiral to i think it stands now at something like 27,000, far higher than last year. to be exact, 34,000. 34,000 than last year. to be exact, 34,000. 31