mr. abbott was asked about the claims but would only say they used a range of measures to stop the boats from coming. mark kenny is the chief correspondent for the sydney herald. stopping the influx of migrants was a campaign promise that tony abbott made and now he is defending whatever measures are being taken. what is the latest? >> the latest after this policy of stopping the boats by turning them around and taking whatever people they intercept to offshore detention centers we now find that the australian government looks to have been paying some asylum seekers or the smugglers carrying them to take their boats back to indonesia. and the government is accused of paying the smugglers themselves now. >> exactly. because our -- if you are paying the smugglers handsome sums to turn around are you not perpetuating the smuggling if that's what's being done. scene anyone in australia looking into what happened? >> that's a very good point. the government has made this argument very strongly for a long time now that everything about its policy is about removing the factors, the attracting f

mr. abbott on the defensive. >> we have stopped the boats.o whatever we reasonably can, consistent with the principles of a decent and humane society to ensure that the boats stay stopped, and i am never, ever going to apologize for stopping the boats, because frankly, that was absolutely necessary after the former government created a disaster on our borders. >> for context on this story, let's bring in david mann live from melbourne. he is a human rights lawyer and executive director of the refugee immigration legal center in australia. david, good to have you on the phone with us today. some suggest that this is actually cheaper for the government to pay people to send the smugglers -- to pay the smugglers to turn them away. what are your thoughts about this practice? >> well, the first and fundamental point here is that the government still has not denied that it paid people smugglers to essentially turn back asylum-seekers to sea. and the government must confirm or deny or investigate whether it aided and abetted what it describes as the

lou: and governor greg abbott in texas saying that really people should rethink these clinton complaints and former governor rick perry saying go home mrs. clinton and take care of your own state buffer come down here. she's not even dealing with the vast disparity between new york and that 20 days that she has suggested for a national standard for voting or the 28 days of the great state of ohio. it is really a head scratcher. they look really like bumbling inept campaigners here taking on these issues in this fashion, don't they? >> well they do. and it's not going to play very well with the ohio taxpayers when you come seeking their votes when you do these kinds of things. not going to play well at all. ohioans don't want people to use the federal court system to win what they couldn't win through the democratic process, and that's really the goal here is to throw elections into chaos and to try to use the federal courts to win what you can't win at the election on election day. lou: while everybody is saluting you and the great state of ohio for 28 days of voting. a lot of people are scratching their heads and asking how in this mod