mr. bertolini is talking about adverse selection, as you well know. these obamacare plans, they're all pretty much one size fits all, the differentials are in the premiums versus the deductibles, but what he's saying is you didn't give them enough choice. they might have wanted a small package, might not have wanted all bells and whistles. i don't need all kinds of maternity mandates at my age going into the insurance policy. what he's saying is we could have done it cheaper, but we didn't do it cheaper. because they didn't do it cheaper, they're going to have to jack up their premium. because they're going to jack up their premiums, they're going to go elsewhere. this is another key point, he said. they won't go to the obama public exchanges, they will go to private exchanges. what's your reaction to that? >> well, there's a lot of different pieces there, larry. first, let's say, within the choice question, right now there is quite a bit of choice within the exchanges. we see differences across plans. certainly in how much they cost among the premium

mr. bertolini went further saying etna may pull out of the whole will deal and you say?well point has been complimentary toward him. i think the signups has a the lo of momentum. i think the thing worked in massachusetts. i think it's going to work. does s. it going to have rollout glitches? of course they are. can they improve it and make it user friendly? absolutely. we are not even finished with the third month since its rollout and i think it's so much better now than it was before. and, yeah, i think it has got some in edna polls out. it's over. nobody knows who he is except clayman she knows all these people. if etna pulls out, it is over. absolutely over how powerful they are, and this guy he is also saying, carville and this might interest you that insurance premiums are going up they are going up, all right? >> we have had the best healthcare cost. we he have had some good things happen. i always thought this was going to work. you thought it wasn't. we have enough tape of us going back and forth. easy but in the end it is going to work fine. >> i think you -- i