mr. bradshaw has to say about what i just said as well. thank you. >> we probably don't have time but i'd certainly like to hear that model that works. i believe it's going to be devastating to all those student athletes including women who don't produce revenue. who aren't seen as -- athletes or student who is create that revenue. i would like to see that model work because as we all know that's going to mean those that can afford to pay for that, will. and those that can't won't. >> thank you. >> again, if i could reiterate and i appreciate the question and i'm trying to articulate it as clearly as i can. if the athletes are, in fact, employees, then we have a moral obligation and an obligation under the law, to treat them as such. if they're not, it does not

mr. bradshaw. now dr. richard southpaw a director at the university of south carolina. welcome, sir. >> thank you. chairman rockefeller ranking member thune and distinguished committee members, thank you for the opportunity to speak before you today. my initial draft of my comments was only 35 minutes so thank you for giving me the advice. as director of the college sport research institute at the university of south carolina, my comments today are not off the cuff remarks but informed by soclogical, educational studies and empirical study drawn from ncaa documents, they reflect not only my work but also that of numerous colleagues and scholars. while i'm well aware there are distinct differences within ncaa divisions as well as between ncaa revenue and olympic sport, my testimony today will focus on how within big-time college sports ncaa members have sought to protect their business interests at the expense of the well being and academic success of ncaa profit athletes. for several decades the ncaa was aware that as the scale of revenue generation and spending continu

mr. bradshaw, you bring unique perspective as a former a.d. and as member institution. i'm told it was your practice to conduct interviews, and at times that led to substan thif changes in policy, but you have some examples from those interviews that you can share with us that led to direct improvements? >> we gathered our best information from our student athletes about how they were being treated. as many of you might now, student athletes are not the most shy. they actually let you know when they're hungry, when they need things. the exit interviews were invaluable, because seniors were leaving the institution. we also followed up, had questionnaires we sent the seniors a month before we left, then we went over those questionnaires with the student athletes to talk about every facet of their experience he university. that was helpful. we also have a captains council, which was an aggregate of the captains from every team that got together without the coaches, just myself and some administrators to hear everything they had to say about their experience, so that we cou

mr. bradshaw, you bring unique perspective as a former a.d. and as member institution. i'm told it was your practice to conduct interviews, and at times that led to substan thif changes in policy, but you have some examples from those interviews that you can share with us that led to direct improvements? >> we gathered our best information from our student athletes about how they were being treated. as many of you might now, student athletes are not the most shy. they actually let you know when they're hungry, when they need things. the exit interviews were invaluable, because seniors were leaving the institution. we also followed up, had questionnaires we sent the seniors a month before we left, then we went over those questionnaires with the student athletes to talk about every facet of their experience he university. that was helpful. we also have a captains council, which was an aggregate of the captains from every team that got together without the coaches, just myself and some administrators to hear everything they had to say about their experience, so that we cou

mr. bradshaw pointed out have been steadily growing for more than 15 years now each and every year. if you look at african-american men on any given campus have a 9% higher probability of graduating if they have to be -- happen to be an athlete that if they are not. student athletes make very good students. yes there are many issues and as the two former athletes have pointed them out nicely the need to be addressed but for the vast majority students being an athlete also goes along with being a better student and more likely to graduate and also we believe though that date is not well done and we heard from dr dr. southall that he's doing a study that will be useful we believe there's good reason to see they are more successful in life as well overall. so one of the things that we all need to work on together is to make sure we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here. you're collegiate athletics as you pointed out mr. rockefeller is a wonderful part of our society provides extraordinary opportunities for the vast majority of student athletes. i focus my comments on the thi

mr. bradshaw. now, dr. richards, who is a professor at the university of south carolina the director of the college sports research institute. welcome, sir. >> thank you. chairman rockefeller, ranking member thune and distinguished members, thank you for the opportunity to speak for you today. my initial draft of my comments was only 35 minutes so thank you for giving me the advice. as director of the college sport research institute at the university of south carolina, my comments today are not off the cuff remarks but informed by social, logical, organizational and economic theories as well as empirical studies and drawn exextensively from ncaa documents and my work and colleagues and scholars. i am aware there are distinct sociograbbing differences within ncaa divisions and revenue and olympic sports, my testimony today will focus on how within big time college sport ncaa members have sought to protect their interestss at the expense of the well being and academic profit athletes. for several decades, th

mr. bradshaw has to say about what i just said as well. thank you. >> we probably don't have time but i'd certainly like to hear that model that works. i believe it's going to be devastating to all those student athletes including women who don't produce revenue. who aren't seen as -- athletes or student who is create that revenue. i would like to see that model work because as we all know that's going to mean those that can afford to pay for that will. and those that can't won't. >> thank you. >> again, if i could reiterate and i appreciate the question and i'm trying to articulate it as clearly as i can. if the athletes are, in fact employees, then we have a moral obligation and an obligation under the law to treat them as such. if they're not it does not preclude them from participating. title 9 does not have to be held hostage by this because we're only talking about 5% of the know my time is up so we'll have a distinction. some are employees and some won't? some are student athletes and some aren't? >> they already are employees. so b

mr. bradshaw has to say about what i just said as well.you. >> we probably don't have time, but i certainly would like to hear that model that works. i believe it's going to be devastating to all those student athletes, including women, who don't produce revenue. who aren't seen as athletes or students who create that revenue. i really would like to see that model work. because as we all know, that's going to mean who can afford to pay for that will and those who can't won't. >> thank you. >> again, if i could reiterate, and i appreciate the question, and i'm trying to articulate it as clearly as i can. if the athletes are, in fact, employees, then we have a moral obligation and an obligation under the law to treat them as such. if they're not, it does not preclude them from participating. title ix does not have to be held hostage by this because we're only talking about 5% of the athletes. >> so i know my time is up, and i know others have to ask questions, but, so we're just going to have a distinction? so some will be employees and some