mr. brennan suggested?hat i would say about that is to use your phrase fog of war and fog of combat and a lot of information coming in and it is still unclear. the woman i believe you are talking about is the one on the first floor who was caught in the crossfire and whether or not she was being used as a shield or trying to use herself as a shield or simply caught in the crossfire is unclear. we are working on getting the details that we can. >> and what the president called president zardari -- >> if i can point out that the woman shot in the leg and physically assaulted the or attempted to assault or charge rather one of the u.s. assaulters and that every effort was taken for those who were not engaged in an effort to resist to protect them, the nine combatants and it was rather extraordinary the number of individuals who were in the compound who were not posing a threat to the assaulters, that they were made secure and not harmed. >> and when the president called president zardari, was he aware of any o

mr. brennan is finished to take those questions. i just want to make a point before john comes up that as many of you know that the president, even before he was president, when he was a candidate, has a very clear idea about the approach he would take as president towards osama bin laden. in august of 2007, he said, if we have actionable intelligence about high value terrorist targets and president musharraf won't act, we will. in july of 2008 he said, we must make it clear if pakistan cannot or will not act we will take out high level terrorist targets like bin laden if we have them in our sights. he repeated statements like that again. i want to be clear that this is an approach that he always felt that he would take when he was president and then as john will elaborate once he took office, he made sure we would revitalize our focus on osama bin laden and the hunt for him. so with that i'd like to invite john up to take your questions, and i will be standing here if you have questions on other topics. thank you. >> how do you wan

mr. brennan is finished. i just want to make a point before john comes up that as many of you know, the president, even before he was president, had a clear idea about the approach he would take as president toward osama bin laden. august, 2007, he said if we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and president musharraf will not act, we will. in july of 2008, he said we must make it clear that if pakistan cannot act, we will take a high level terrorist targets if we have that in our sights. he repeated statements like that. i want to be clear that this is an approach that he always felt he would take when he was president and once he took office he made sure that we would revitalize our focus on a sum of ben laden and the hunt for him. with that i want to invite john up to take your questions and i will be standing here if you have questions on other topics, thank you. >> was there a consideration to take bin lkaden alive? >> it was absolutely to prepare for all contingencies. if we

mr. brennan, can you give us details on whether there were previous operations called a last-minute -- called off at the last minute, and the inability to identify bin laden's body positively -- >> there were different courses of actions and options available to present, as to whether there would be an assault on the ground, or some type of a stand- off option for yet discussed all the pros and cons of them, and through the process of discussion, the options were narrowed down until the president decided this was the best option, because it gave us the ability to minimize collateral damage, ensure that we knew who it was that was on that compound, as opposed to taking some type of strike there, and also as a way to do what we could to respect the sovereignty of pakistan and also to allow us to engage with them immediately after the fact as opposed to some type of ordinance that might be dropping on the. thatou mentioned questions would be raised about pakistan, understandably, and the role of pakistan. for you and your counterterrorism not come in the wake of the agreement -- counter-terroris

mr. brennan and others have made clear, there was -- we were prepared to capture him if that was possible. we expected a great deal of resistance and were met with a great deal of resistance. >> he wasn't armed. >> but there were many other people who were armed in the compound. there was a firefight. >> but not in that room. >> dan, it was a highly volatile firefight. i'll point you to the department of defense for more details about it, but it was -- he resi resisted. the u.s. personnel on the ground handled themselves with the utmost professionalism, and he was killed in an operation because of the resistance that they met. >> since everyone here was given realtime information, was the decision to shoot and kill one that was done there by that unit or was there consultation -- was there information flowing back and forth and it was directed that, yes, go for the kill at that point? >> operation was run from the ground or certainly not from the white house, and at the point i think mr. brennan described this yesterday at the briefing or perhaps on television or maybe in both places, tha

mr. brennan and others made clear, we were prepared to capture him if that was possible. we expected a great deal of resistance. and were met with a great deal of resistance. but there were many other people armed in the compound. there was a firefight' it was a highly volatile firefight. i'll point out department of defense for more details about it. but it was -- he resisted the u.s. personnel on the ground handled themselves with the utmost professionalism. and he was killed in an operation because of the resistance that they met. >> everyone here was getting retime information. was the decision to shoot and kill done by that unit or was there consultation. was there information flowing back and forth and it was directed go for the kill. >> the operation was run from the ground, certainly not from the white house. and at the point i think mr. brennan described this yesterday at the briefing or perhaps on television or maybe in both places, at that point the folks in the situation room were observers and listeners to an operation that obviously had been carefully though

saying well this some of this information was retrieved because of waterboarding i see this more as mr brennan's attempt to rewrite history and try to say look waterboarding was good and and now that he's such a close adviser obama is in a position to do that despite the contradictions in the warning from nation it is widely believed that he is dead isn't it the conspiracy theories in the u.s. are they not or do they. people think they really could have a point. well i think there's no question it's the with the one major thing is when did he die there's many many reports including from cia f.b.i. presidents zardari and musharraf of pakistan former prime minister of pakistan the late benazir bhutto all said in interviews that bin laden may have died of kidney failure as early as two thousand and one so. these these statements stand on their own merit and we even had general franks tommy franks the head of the central command say and look i don't know whether he's dead or alive we don't have any intelligence that says one way or the other so even general franks was unwilling to actually say say t

mr. brennan is finished to take those questions. to make a point before john comes up that as many of you know that the president even before he was president when he was a candidate had a clear idea about the approach he would take as president towards osama bin laden. in august of 2007, he said, if we have actionable intelligence about high value terrorist targets, and president musharraf won't act, we will. in july of 2008, he said, we must make it clear that if pakistan cannot or will not act, we will take out higher the errorist targets like bin laden if we have them in our sights. we repeated statements like that before, and i wa to make it clear that this is an approach he always felt he would take as president, and then as john will elaborate once he took office he made sure that we would revitalize our focus on osama bin laden and the hunt for him. so, with that, i'd like to invite john up to take your questions, and i will be standing here if you have questions on other topics. thank you. >> how do you want to do this? [ l

mr. brennan described yesterday and this morning on television. >> why can't you get more specific without or anything? >> well, i think specifically we don't talk about -- with any great detail how we get our realtime information for a variety of reasons. those meetings take place in the situation room for a reason. those rooms there are for secure communications. so i can't get more specific than that. i think it's been said so i can say that leon panetta, the director of the central intelligence agency was on a screen and communicating with those in the situation room and the president, so he was present in that room in that sense as well. >> so they were -- [ inaudible ]. >> we were receiving realtime minute-by-minute updates on -- excuse me, on the operation taking place in pakistan at that moment. but they were receiving a lot of information at once. >> okay. so brennan in his briefing yesterday made a couple of, i guess, misstatements or statements that later appear to be somewhat incorrect such as that the wife was shielding bin laden and it turned out it wasn't the wife and there

mr. brennan? >> well, it depends. the team is a big -- it's not just men who went into pakistan.ere's obviously a bigger network that represents the team, the operation team, and i just -- i'm not sure. there is the head of special forces who obviously has spoken to members of the administration and he's very much part of the team. so i don't have any information about more contact. yes? >> the u.n.'s top human rights official said yesterday that she hoped the administration would release full details about the operation in or to settle any questions about whether it was legally justifiable. does the administration feel or have any plans that it needs to say anything more about how the operation was carried out, rules of engagement to justify the action that happened? >> let me address that question and i'll -- forgive me, i'm going to read so i'm very precise here. the team had the authority to kill osama bin laden unless he offered to surrender in which case the team was required to accept his sur remember den if they could do safely. the operation was conducted in a manner con

mr. brennan? when you were secretary of state and national security adviser, did you completely trust the pakistanis? the fact that we told them nothing of the mission until it was over, not even told them of our intelligence that suggested bin laden was at this location indicates to me that we don't trust them. >> well, a mission of this kind has to operate in absolute secrecy. and i'm not surprised that foreign governments were not brought into the circle about this. obviously, pakistan is a counterterrorism partner. everyone knows pakistan had trouble with extremism within some of its military and intelligence forces. president mousharef, all the way back in 2001, 2002 launched a kind of reform, even purge of some of the institutions. it is no secret there were sympathizers within those institutions. it's always a delicate matter with pakistan as to how much information really is warranted and how much information will be protected. but i take the president at his word. i take secretary clinton

mr. brennan is finished to take those questions. i just want to make a point before john comes up that as many of you know, the president's coming even before he was president, had a very clear idea about the approach he would take as president toward osama bin laden. in august of 2007, he said if we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and president musharraf , we will. in july 2008, he said we must make it clear that if pakistan cannot or will not act, we will take out high-level targets like bin laden if we have them in our sides. i just want to be clear that this is an approach that he always felt that he would take when he was president, and as john will elaborate, once he took office, he made sure that we would revitalize our focus on osama bin laden and the hunt for him. with that i would like to invite john up to take your questions, and i will be standing here if you have questions on other topics. thank you. >> how do you want to do this? >> i wanted to ask about the specific form of the raid. wa

mr. brennan made clear, we were prepared to capture him if that was possible. we expected a great deal of resistance and were met with a great deal of resistance. there was -- but there were many people who were armed in the region -- i mean, in the compound. there was a fire-fight. >> not in that room when he went in. >> dan, it was a highly volatile fire-fight. i'll point you to the department of defense for more details about it, but it was. he resisted the u.s. personnel on the ground handled themselves with the utmost professionalism. and he was killed in an operation because of the resistaced that they met. >> everyone was getting real time information. was the decision to shoot and kill done by that unit or was there consultation -- was there information flowing back and forth and it was directed that they had to go to the kill at that point. >> operation was run from the ground or certainly not from the white house. and at the point i think mr. brennan described this yesterday at the briefing or perhaps on television or maybe in both places that at that

mr. brennan's remarks never said bin laden had a weapon in his hands. they have come out and said, no, he was not arm. the point for u.s. s.e.a.l.s and u.s. troops was, did osama bin laden pose an imminent threat? was he lunging, reaching for a weapon, could he have been wearing a suicide vest, was he jest yuring to someone in the room that had a weapon? we do not know this. the question to the navy s.e.a.l.s, did he pose an iminent threat and did they feel like they had to take action? by all accounts, the navy s.e.a.l.s feel he did pose that threat. we don't know precisely how. >> hopefully, more information will be coming out and it will be the correct information. barbara sta barbara starr reporting life. >>> pakistan is angrily rejected xlams that they dropped the ball. leon panetta told lawmakers, either they were involved or incompetent. neither place is a good place to be. nick payton walsh is in abbo abbottabad. how are they responding that they dropped the ball? >> reporter: they admit they are embarrassed themselves. what has really god to th

mr. brennan? >> the team is not just those men who went into pakistan. there is a bigger network that represents the team. the operation team. i'm not sure. there is the head of special forces who obviously has spoken to members of the administration and he's have much part of the team. so i don't have any information about more contact. >> human rights officials said yesterday that she hoped the administration would release full details to settle any questions about whether it was legally justifiable. does the administration have any plans that it needs to say anything more about how the operation was carried out, the rules of engagement to justify the action? >> let me address that question. i'm going read so i'm precise here. the team hat the authority to kill usama bin laden unless he offered to surrender. in which case the team was required to accept his surrender if the team could do so safely. the operation was conducted in a manner fully consistent with the laws of war. the operation was planned so that the team was prepared and had the means to

mr. brennan saying that was what he viewed as the most tense moment throughout as all of this was playing out, because he says that when you plan an operation like this, you always hope that you can accomplish it through step one or the a-operation, but sometimes you have to go through the backup plan and in this case when the second helicopter was not operational they had to go to plan, but they were still successful in getting all of those involved in the mission out of there, but as you poind ou out this was a tense situation and the gutsiest call that this president or any president in their words has had to do. >> well, a gutsy call for the president, the commander in chief, to make this decision, because the risks were enormous. dan lothian, thanks very much. enanderson, i can tell you from my own reporting that a lot of the officials in the situation room when they heard that the helicopters had been disabled it brought back images of when another president jimmy carter sent helicopters to bring back diplomats held as hostages in iran, and we know what happened with those helicopte

mr. brennan is finished to take those questions.nt to make a point before john comes up that as many of you know, the president even before he was president when he was a candidate has a clear idea about the approach he would take as president towards usama bin laden. in august of 2011 he said if we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and president musharraf won't act, we will. in july of 2008, he said we must make it clear if pakistan cannot and will not act, we'll take out high-level terrorist targets like bin laden if we have number our sights. this is an approach he felt he would take when he was president and then as john will elaborate, once he took office, he made sure that we would revitalize our focus on usama bin laden and the hunt for him. so with that i would like to invite john up to take your questions. and i will be standing here if you have questions on other topics. thank you. >> i wanted to ask about the specific goal of the raid. were they trying to taken by * alive or was eight mission

mr. brennan is finished, take those questions. i just want to make a point before john comes up that as many of you know, there is a very clear idea about the approach he would take as president towards osama bin laden. in august 2007, he said if we had actionable evidence, and president musharraf's will not act, we will. in july of 2008, he said we must make it clear that we will take out high level terrorist targets like bin laden if we have them in our sights. he repeated statements like that again, and i want to be clear that this is an approach that he always thought he would take as president, and once he took office, he made sure that we will revitalize our focus on osama bin laden and the hunt for him, so with that, i would like to invite john up to take your questions, and i will be standing here if you have questions on other topics. thank you. >> the associated press. is there a consideration to take bin laden alive >> -- alive? >> the individuals involved were able and prepared to do that. we had discussed that sensibl

mr. brennan?t the men who went into pakistan, and there is a bigger network that represents the team, the operation team, and i just, i'm not sure. there is the head of the special forces who obviously has spoken to members of the administration, and he's very much a part of the team. so i don't have any information about more contact. yes? >> the u.n.'s top human rights official said yesterday that she hoped that the administration would release full details about the operation in order to settle any questions about whether it was legally justifiable, and does the administration feel or any have plans that it needs to say anything more about how the operation was carried out, the rules of engagement to justify the actions? >> well, let me address that question, and forgive me, because i want to read so i am very precise here. the team had the authority to kill osama bin laden, unless he offered to surrender in which case the team was required to accept the surrender if the team could do so safely

mr. john brennan. >> he's the guy sitting next to bin laden here. always trying to prove himself.been his second in command in al qaeda since 1998. by a bunch of different accounts, he's not a likable terrorist. he is from egypt. in al qaeda, that's not good. an fbi special agent who interviewed many wrote all though al qaeda recruits come from many countries, apparently, it's everybody who is not egyptian against everyone who is egyptian. sucker games put egyptians against arabs. soccer. they can't do shirts versus skins so it's everyone in shirts versus the egyptian guys in shirts. why is being an egyptian a strike against you in al qaeda? i do not know, but it is. it sounds like cause for disunity in al qaeda. it's great news for the rest of the world. also in a post 9/11 world of an already fragmented al qaeda, the work of power and authority the way bin laden did, there's never been another leader. it will fall to mr. not so charismatic, mr. egypt and being on the run. from on the run, when he's been able to put out statements in the past few years, they have served to annoy

mr. brennan's capabilities but because that choice, that structure undermines the statutory role of the d.n.iwe must ask therefore, the fundamental question, are changes in the law required in order to realize the potential of the d.n.i. or is this simply a mat every of more -- matter of more fidelity to the law? i look forward to hearing your testimony. thanks for being here. >> admiral blair, it's all yours. thanks for being here. >> as we celebrate the brave work of those who found and attacked osama bin laden in his hideout, now is a similar time for both laws to make this nation's intelligence enterprise more effective than it is. as i look to our future national security challenges and opportunities, i'm convinced that we need an intelligence community that operates under authorities that are relevant to the future, not to the past and intelligence community that is organized on a rational basis and intelligence community that is integrated under a strong and competent director of national intelligence. i left the administration a year ago frustrated with the lack of support for a stron

mr. brennan said the latest information from the bin laden raid was that he was in the compound for the pastor six years. president obama plans to visit new york city on thursday to mark the death of bin laden. he will visit ground zero and he will meet with families of those killed nearly 10 years ago. the repercussions on the pakistan raid from around the world today. britain should be extra vigilant against terrorism following the death of bin laden. five men were arrested near a nuclear plant in england. >> congratulations to all the winners of this year's studentcam documentary entries. continued the conversation at our facebook and twitter pages. the theme next year is the u.s. constitution. create a video on why it is important to you. >> you are watching c-span. every morning, it is "washington journal," connected with elected officials and journalists. weeknights, congressional hearings and policy forms. supreme court arguments. on the weekend, you can see our signature interview programs. "the communicators" on saturdays. you can also watch our programming anytime at c- span.org. i

mr. brennan and the white house on how this has played out. >> i have a very high level of confidence on information coming from the administration and coming from john brennan. this is a problem with everybody wanted to ask questions so fast and so thin, and it is very difficult to sort everything out, so he did correct himself, as you know, and we are all subject to that kind of thing. apparently, there was a wife who stood in front of her husband, and i believe the person may well have been the courier i have been talking about, but whether she was forced to do it, or she did voluntarily, i have no idea. >> are you saying that she was married to the courier? the wife of the courier? >> that is my tentative understanding, subject to change. >> do you expect the committee to review the photographs? >> i expect us to ask for that to see that, yes. >> have you seen them? >> no. >> do you know there is a video of the burial? >> i would assume that it has been video and. i do not know that it has been. i think that this is being very carefully considered. i think for purposes of 100% of iden

mr. brennan is finished to take those questions.t want to make a point before john comes up, that as many of you know, even before he was president, the president had a very clear idea about the approach he would take as president towards osama bin laden. in august of 2007 he said if we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and president musharraf won't act, we will. in july 2008, he said we must make it clear that if pakistan cannot or will not act, we will take out high-level targets like bin laden if we have them in our sides. i just want to be clear that this is an approach that he always felt that he would take when he was president, and as john will elaborate, once he took office, he made sure that we would revitalize our focus on osama bin laden and the hunt for him. with that i would like to invite john up to take your questions, and i will be standing here if you have questions on other topics. thank you. >> how do you want to do this? [laughter] >> i wanted to ask about the specific form of the ra

mr. brennan, can you give us any details on whether there were previous operations that were called off at the last minute because of perhaps the inability to identify his body? >> there are different courses of action about the options that were available to the president as far as whether it would be an assault on the ground or some type of standoff option. we discussed all the pros and cons and through that process of discussion, the options were narrowed down until the president decided that this was the best option because it gave us the ability to minimize collateral damage, insure that we knew who it was that was on that compound, as opposed to taking some type of strike there, and also as a way to do what we could to respect the sovereignty of pakistan and allow us to engage with them immediately after the fact. >> you mentioned that questions will be raised about pakistan, understandably and the role of pakistan. given the history and the fact that this was done without consultation, are you concerned that in your line of work it will be very difficult to reestablish a good workin

mr. brennan's capabilities, but because of that choice, that structure undermines the statutory role of the dni. we assess therefore the fundamental question, are changes in the long required in order to realize the potential of the dni, or is this simply a matter of more fidelity to the 2004 law. admiral, thank you for being here today, and i look forward to hearing your testimony. >> thanks very much, senator collins. admiral blair, it's all yours. thanks for being here. [inaudible] >> sir, could you just push the button on the microphone. they can expect think you for inviting me here today. it's common to improve the effectiveness of government after some disaster or crisis. and, in fact, intelligence act of 2004 the board of 9/11 as you mentioned, mr. chairman. but i think that reform in the wake of success also has a history. those who live the great victory of world war ii knew that there were major improvements to be made in the national security organizations and when the prayed for over a passable legislation to make the country safer. so, as we support, as we celebrate the brave

mr. brennan's capability but because that structure undermines the statutory role of the dni. so a basic question we adjust and is whether changes to the mall are required or whether it is simply a matter of more fidelity to the spirit and the letter of the 2004 law in order to realize the potential of the dni. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you. well said. congresswoman, it's great to have you here on the other side of the table. welcome back. >> thank you. i'm not used to be on the other side of the table. you and i and senator collins and pete hoekstra or at the same table day and night as we crafted what is now probably the worst ackerman never invented. again it is a pleasure to testify with good friends before dear friends and dedicate former colleagues who serve on one of the most important and bipartisan committees in the senate. i now work in a bipartisan institution and pinch myself every day to be so lucky and to succeed our former colleague lee hamilton at that job. i am passionate about the topic of the hearing. intelligence and intelligence reform of the focus

mr. brennan's capability but because that structure undermines the statutory role of the dni. so a basic questi we adjust and is whether changes to the mall are equired or whether it is simply a matter of more fidelity to the spirit and the letter of the 2004 law in order to realize the potential of the dni. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you. well said. congresswoman, it's great to have you here on the other side of the table. welcome back. >> thank you. i'm not ed to be on the other side of the table. you and i and senator collins and pete hoekstra or at the same table day and night as we crafted what is now probably the worst ackerman never invented. again it is a pleasure to testify with good friends before dear friends and dedicate former colleagues who serve on one of the most important and bipartisan committees in the senate. i now work in a bipartisan institution and pinch myself every day to be so lucky and to succeed our former colleague lee hamilton at that job. i am passionate about the topic of the hearing. intelligence and intelligence reform of the focus of my

. >> white house terrorism adviser john brennan. mr. not so charismatic zawahiri is a doctor, he's the guy on the -- sitting next to bin laden here, always trying to prove himself, see how close we are? zawahiri has been osama bin laden's second in command in al qaeda since at least 1998. by a bunch of different accounts he's not a very likable or inspiring terrorist. even if you are a hair on fire extremist, yourself. for one thing, zawahiri is from egypt and in al qaeda, apparently that's not good. an fbi special agent wrote in a "new york times" op-ped, though al qaeda recruits come from many country, within the organization apparently it's sort of everybody who's not egyptian against everyone who is egyptian. quote, even soccer games pit egyptians against persian gulf arabs. al qaeda soccer. they can't do shirts versus skins, modesty. so it's everyone in shirts versus all the egyptian guys in shirts. why is being an egyptian a strike against you in al qaeda? i do not know. apparently it is. with an egyptian guy as the apparent next

mr. brennan's capabilities, but because that choice, that structure, undermines the statutory role of the director of national intelligence. we must ask, therefore, the fundamental question. are changes in the law required in order to realize the potential of the director of national intelligence, or is this simply a matter of more fidelity to the 2004 lot? admiral, thank you for being here today, and i look forward to hearing your testimony. >> thank you very much, senator collins. admiral blair, it is all yours. thank you for being here. push the button so the microphone is on. >> thank you for inviting me here today. it is common to improve the effectiveness of government after some disaster or crisis. in fact, the terrorist reform and prevention act of 2004 was born of 9/11, as you mentioned. i think reform in the wake of success also has a history. those who led the great victory of world war ii knew that there were improvements to be made in the national security organizations, and when the parades' were over, the passed boal legislation to make the country safer. as we celebrate th

mr. brennan's capability but because that structure undermines the statutory role of the dni.so a basic question we adjust and is whether changes to the mall are required or whether it is simply a matter of more fidelity to the spirit and the letter of the 2004 law in order to realize the potential of the dni. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you. well said. congresswoman, it's great to have you here on the other side of the table. welcome back. >> thank you. i'm not used to be on the other side of the table. you and i and senator collins and pete hoekstra or at the same table day and night as we crafted what is now probably the worst ackerman never invented. again it is a pleasure to testify with good friends before dear friends and dedicate former colleagues who serve on one of the most important and bipartisan committees in the senate. i now work in a bipartisan institution and pinch myself every day to be so lucky and to succeed our former colleague lee hamilton at that job. i am passionate about the topic of the hearing. intelligence and intelligence reform of the focus o

mr. obama's top counterterrorism advisor john brennan said yesterday it lasted 40 minutes. each one of the minutes felt more like a day. one of the people in the room heard a commander on the scene in pakistan utter the words, geronomo, ekia. geronomo was the name for bin laden, ekia means enemy killed in action. we are also told at one point that the president watching what was unfolding said quietly, we got him. erica? >> the pictures tell quite a tale. bill plante at the white house. we'll speak to john brennan a little more about that meeting. detail this is morning about the top-secret operation that killed osama bin laden. national correspondent david martin was at the pentagon with the latest on that angle. we're learning that it was in fact a courier that led the u.s. intelligence to this compound as far back as august. but how were they able to track it? >> well, they got his nickname from their interrogation of the al qaeda operatives. and some of these were operatives like khalid sheikh mohammed held in the cia prisons where they were subjected to water boarding.

mr. ambassador? >> ambassador richard holbrook, the president of the united states, they have always said there is a trust deficit between our countries that we are working hard to overcome. as john brennanid, we're also going over the question of what systems there were to support osama bin laden in abbottabad and to make it possible for him to live there unmolested for such along -- a long time. i do think it's important to emphasize, as our secretary said this morning, our relationship with pakistan, while it occasionally has its challenges, is a productive one. that more terrorists have been apprehended or killed in pakistan than anywhere else, and that this collaboration between our countries has been absolutely vital to degrading the al-qaeda threat over quite a number of years. so it is a complicated picture but it is a vital relationship and we need to keep working at it. >> i understand it's complicated, and my question is, do you believe that the pakistani government knew that osama bin laden was in their country? that's just a simple yes or no. >> i believe that they thought there was a good chance that he was somewhere in pakistan. i can't imagine, given all of the focus on f

mr. ambassador? >> ambassador richard holbrook, the president of the united states, they have always said there is a trust deficit between our countries that we are working hard to overcome. as john brennan said, we're also going over the question of what systems there were to support osama bin laden in abbottabad and to make it possible for him to live there unmolested for such along -- a long time. i do think it's important to emphasize, as our secretary said this morning, our relationship with pakistan, while it occasionally has its challenges, is a productive one. that more terrorists have been apprehended or killed in pakistan than anywhere else, and that this collaboration between our countries has been absolutely vital to degrading the al-qaeda threat over quite a number of years. so it is a complicated picture but it is a vital relationship and we need to keep working at it. >> i understand it's complicated, and my question is, do you believe that the pakistani government knew that osama bin laden was in their country? that's just a simple yes or no. >> i believe that they thought there was a good chance that he was somewhere in pakistan. i can't imagine, given all of the focus o

mr. ambassador? >> ambassador richard holbrook, the president of the united states, they have always said there is a trust deficit between our countries that we are working hard to overcome. as john brennan said, we're also going over the question of what systems there were to support osama bin laden in abbottabad and to make it possible for him to live there unmolested for such along -- a long time. i do think it's important to emphasize, as our secretary said this morning, our relationship with pakistan, while it occasionally has its challenges, is a productive one. that more terrorists have been apprehended or killed in pakistan than anywhere else, and that this collaboration between our countries has been absolutely vital to degrading the al-qaeda threat over quite a number of years. so it is a complicated picture but it is a vital relationship and we need to keep working at it. >> i understand it's complicated, and my question is, do you believe that the pakistani government knew that osama bin laden was in their country? that's just a simple yes or no. >> i believe that they thought there was a good chance that he was somewhere in pakistan. i can't imagine, given all of the focus o