mr. carlin: he did.e got called up as one of the people helping to clean up the site afterwards, and i remember the feeling, as many do come out of wondering if your family members are safe and trying to call frantically to reach them. we were lucky that day. many others were not. charlie: have we learned the lesson? mr. carlin: i think we have learned important lessons from that day, what it -- which is to forget not what -- never forget what happened. was created i lead as post-9/11 reform because of a failure to share information. charlie: from cia to fbi to nsa and others? mr. carlin: we weren't structured that way at the time. there were legal and cultural barriers. we now have the prosecutors sitting next to the intelligence lawyers, and it caused a change in mindset. success is no longer going to be measured by the successful prosecution of a terrorist after-the-fact. when families have lost loved ones. iscession is -- success measured by preventing the attack. you have to know what they know, and

mr. carlin: thanks, charlie. charlie: why are you leaving? mr. carlin: it seemed like a natural break point. it has been nearly 20 years with the justice department. loved every job that i had there. charlie: tremendously influenced by 9/11? mr. carlin: i am a new yorker, my family was in new york that day. i remember my father was underneath the world trade center in the subway on his way downtown. my brother-in-law was right across the street, looking out. charlie: he saw people jumping out? r. carlin: he did. he was in the reserves at the time. he got called up as one of the people helping to clean up the site afterwards, and i remember the feeling, as many do come out of wondering if your family members are safe and trying to call frantically to reach them. we were lucky that day. many others were not. charlie: have we learned the lesson? mr. carlin: i think we have learned important lessons from not day, one of which is to forget what happened that day. the division i lead was created as post-9/11 reform because of a failure to share informat

mr. carlin addressed, some of which he chose not to address.t did this guy, harold thomas martin, take? >> well, from the best we can take right now -- we can understand right now, it was different than the snowden probe. mr. snowden took big power point slides describing classified operations of getting in -- breaking into china or the mass collection of metadata from phone calls to the united states. it looks like mr. martin's trove is mostly source code. the computer code used by the nsa to break in foreign computer systems, put in what are called implants. we saw a little bit of this, we're not sure if it came from mr. martin's trove, in august, when some of this was posted by a group that was trying to put it up for auction. >> some of the source code. >> some of the source code. and the code you should think of as sort of a tool kit. if you were working at the nsa, particularly in their tailored access operations unit and had to figure out how you were going to break into a computer system in iran or in russia or in china. >> mr. carlin d